Meet the Press - August 30, 2026

Aug. 30, 2026, 11:09 AM EDT

KRISTEN WELKER:

This Sunday: On the ballot With just 65 days until the midterms, President Trump wants voters to think he’s on the ballot in November.

PRES. DONALD TRUMP:

What I really want you to do is pretend, please that I’m on the ballot

KRISTEN WELKER:

But with low approval ratings, economic worries and the Iran war now six months old, can President Trump still drive Republicans to the polls? I’ll talk to Republican Senator Ted Cruz of Texas and Democratic Congressman James Clyburn of South Carolina. Plus: Lake effect. President Trump escalates his trade war with Canada, signing an order to rename Lake Ontario to “Lake America.”

PRES. DONALD TRUMP:

We’re going to be changing the name of Lake Ontario effective immediately to Lake America.

KRISTEN WELKER:

And: Divided? As Democrats work to defend the Michigan Senate seat, their nominee apologizes for comments about a synagogue attack. And faces new questions over his ties to a controversial ally.

REP. DEBBIE DINGELL:

Don’t any reporter ask me again about Hasan Piker. It’s not what November is about.

ABDUL EL-SAYED:

The question right now is how do we get together to beat Donald Trump.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Senior National political reporter Sahil Kapur, Amna Nawaz, co-anchor of PBS NewsHour, Adrienne Elrod, former senior adviser to the Harris campaign, and Lanhee Chen, a fellow at the Hoover Institution. Welcome to Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.

ANNOUNCER:

From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press, with Kristen Welker.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Good Sunday morning. With just 10 weeks to go until the midterms, the campaign is entering a new phase with President Trump at the center. The Iran war is past six months with no clear off-ramp. A trade war with Canada threatens higher prices. And the battle for the Senate is expanding — with six races now toss-ups, five of them Republican seats: Alaska, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Ohio and Texas. Next week, President Trump and Vice President Vance will headline the GOP’s first-ever midterm convention in Dallas. It comes as President Trump is telling Republicans to make November about him and his record. Campaigning in Texas this week, Speaker Mike Johnson put it bluntly:

\[BEGIN TAPE\]

SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:

The president’s going to look right into the camera to his base, and he’s going to say, “I am on the ballot.” We got to get everybody to turn out.

\[END TAPE\]

KRISTEN WELKER:

And joining me now is Republican Senator Ted Cruz of Texas. He’s the author of the new book, “Going Further: The Incomparable Clarence Thomas.” Senator Cruz, welcome back to Meet The Press.

SENATOR TED CRUZ:

Good morning, Kristen. Good to be with you.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Good to have you. I have your book right here, “Going Further.” We are going to discuss it in just a moment. But I do want to start off talking about the race in your great state of Texas which has captured the nation’s attention. You have endorsed Ken Paxton over James Talarico. But the senior senator from Texas, John Cornyn, who of course lost to Ken Paxton in a primary, who served 24 years in the Senate said this this week: quote, “Paxton’s a poor campaigner. He’s lazy and doesn’t raise money. And he basically is not offering a very compelling case for his election. This is unfortunately shaping up to be a close and I hope not disastrous election. But it ain’t looking good right now.” Do you agree with Senator Cornyn that Paxton is lazy and poor campaigner?

SEN. TED CRUZ:

Well, listen, I think primaries can often be bitter. And then you often see hurt feelings. That’s part of the process. It’s also part of the process that when the primary is over, that you come together and you focus on the general election. At the end of the day, this is not about how any one particular person feels about any one particular candidate. This is about the people of Texas. This is about who will best represent 32 million Texans. And on that, I think the answer is very, very clear. Ken Paxton is a strong conservative who is going to fight for low taxes, low regulations, lots of jobs, to secure the border, to support law enforcement, to protect our constitutional rights. That’s what Texans want. That’s what we believe in. James Talarico is a far left radical candidate. He is extreme. This is someone who says God is non-binary. This is someone who says there are six genders. I don’t know what those six genders are. But that’s not what most Texans believe. This is someone who says at our Southern border we should put out a welcome mat to welcome illegal immigrants into this country. Again, that’s not what Texans believe. And this is someone who is now on video saying we should dismantle capitalism. I understand that the DSA Marxists who are taking over the Democrat Party want to dismantle capitalism. You know what? That ain’t Texas. Texas is open for business. And so I have every confidence when the voters move into the fall, get right before Election Day, when they look at Ken Paxton’s record, when they look at James Talarico’s record, I think it’s going to be an easy choice. I believe Ken Paxton will be the next senator from Texas.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Senator Cruz, as you know, Ken Paxton does have his own political baggage including allegations of securities fraud, mortgage fraud, bribery. Can Ken Paxton win without Cornyn’s support?

SEN. TED CRUZ:

Ken Paxton can most absolutely win. He’s been elected statewide over and over and over again. And Ken Paxton I think will win because he has a record. He supports policy positions that are consistent with the voters of Texas. You know, Kristen, I think about when I first ran for office, when I was first elected to the Senate 14 years ago. And right before going to give a speech, Heidi gave me the best political advice I’ve ever gotten in my life. She pulled me aside and she said, “Ted, remember it’s not about you. It’s about them. It’s about their future, their kids, their hopes, their dreams.” That’s what this election is about. So it’s easy in the world of the media to throw attacks and go into the gutter and say all sorts of things attacking the individual candidates. But at the end of the day, the question is, “Which candidate is advancing and fighting for and will support policies that help the people of Texas? And which candidate is advancing and supporting policies that will hurt the people of Texas?” Look, Texans saw 12 million illegals flood into this country under Democrats open border policies. We don’t want to see that again. Texans saw the pain of the bad economic policies under Joe Biden and the Democrats. We don’t want to see that again. I think that’s what’s going to decide the election.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Senator, this is not the media saying these things though about Ken Paxton. This is John Cornyn. Do you think — do you want to see John Cornyn out on the campaign trail with Ken Paxton? Do you think that’s the only way he can shore up those critical voters that he’s probably going to need to win the state?

SEN. TED CRUZ:

Look, as I said, the primary is over. And at this point, I’m friends with both Ken and John. I understand the hurt feelings. That — that is human nature. I’m focused on the people of Texas. And I think the voters are going to be focused on the people of Texas.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Do you think Republicans are going to hold –

SEN. TED CRUZ:

That’s the question.

KRISTEN WELKER:

– the Senate, Senator? Are Republicans going to hold the Senate?

SEN. TED CRUZ:

I — I do. And listen, I think Republicans are going to win Texas for the same reason I think Republicans are going to win Michigan. Because Abdul El-Sayed is a radical, Islamist, dangerous candidate. He is far out of — out of touch with the mainstream.

KRISTEN WELKER:

All right.

SEN. TED CRUZ:

And when the Democrats nominate candidates, James Talarico would be a great Senate candidate in California. He would fit in. You know, this is a guy who runs a meat-free campaign because meat is destroying the world. That fits very well in Berkeley. It does not happen to fit into the great state of Texas.

KRISTEN WELKER:

All right, let’s talk about the war with Iran which as I said has now hit it’s sixth month mark this week. It’s notable because President Trump said the war would only last a few weeks. He posted this image of himself, Senator, declaring, quote, “Mission accomplished.” You see it right there in the bottom right-hand corner. Senator, do you agree with President Trump that it’s mission accomplished in Iran?

SEN. TED CRUZ:

Well, listen, I think there are multiple missions. If you look at the initial mission that the Trump administration laid out, which is to degrade and eliminate Iran’s military capacity, then I think the answer is unequivocally yes. If you look at their ballistic missile supply is almost entirely destroyed. Their drone supply is almost entirely destroyed. Their drone and ballistic missile manufacturing capability has been leveled to the ground. Their — their air force is in rubble on the runway. Their navy is sunk and at the bottom of the ocean. Much of their senior leadership has been eliminated. So in terms of military objectives, I think that is correct. Now, if you also look at — at the objective of imposing economic harm, right now with the blockade that we are holding on Iran, Iran is facing $500 million a day of economic cost. That is enormous cost that is ratcheting up. The economy is in free fall. Now, I would like to see the longer term objection — objective be regime collapse. The ayatollah and the mullahs are radical Islamist zealots. They hate America. The Ayatollah routinely chants, “Death to America.” The Ayatollah hired hit-men twice to try to murder President Trump. This regime, the Islamic regime of Iran has been the world’s leading state sponsor of terror for 47 years. So what I’ve been urging is for President Trump and the Trump administration to arm the protesters, the people of Iran. Arm the Kurds and let the protesters remove this regime –

KRISTEN WELKER:

But –

SEN. TED CRUZ:

– from power, not American boots on the ground, but the Iranian people.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Senator, I hear you arguing that military objectives have been achieved. If that’s the case, why can’t the troops come home? There are still some 50,000 troops there.

SEN. TED CRUZ:

Well, but the troops are not — active combat operations have largely ceased. There are occasional skirmishes. But the active military conflict has reduced significantly. The major operation now is the blockade. The blockade is imposing economic sanctions. And every day that that pressure on the regime grows. I think economic sanctions are powerful. I believe they’d be much more powerful if the protesters — you know, at the beginning of this conflict, the Iranian regime began by murdering somewhere between 10,000 and 40,000 protesters. It was horrific. It shows who this regime is. Frankly, Kristen, it’s not fair to expect some Iranian protester standing there with a rock to stand up against soldiers with machine guns. I believe if we arm the protesters, particularly the Kurds, who had a long history of being effective fighters. If we arm them and let them — it’s not our business to determine who the government of Iran is. But it is our business to say the government of Iran should not be a radical theocrat who hates America and is trying to kill Americans. And President Trump is acting as a strong commander in chief to keep the American people safe.

KRISTEN WELKER:

You take me to my next question. Let’s turn to Venezuela, this deal that President Trump announced on Friday to take control of more than 65 billion barrels of oil there. Senator Cruz, you have been calling for free and fair elections in Venezuela which the administration has been promising since it arrested Nicolas Maduro. Do you believe elections should be held in Venezuela before any oil deal is finalized?

SEN. TED CRUZ:

Well, let me start by saying that the oil deal as announced sounds like it could have a very positive impact on the United States, and the United States economy, on American jobs, and — and a very positive impact on gas prices over the long term. Sixty-five billion barrels of oil is an enormous amount of oil. And so I commend President Trump for an agreement that on its face appears to have a really positive economic benefit for America. The question you asked, the answer is absolutely yes. There need to be democratic free elections in Venezuela. Delcy Rodríguez was Nicolas Maduro’s vice president. Maduro was illegitimate. He was a Marxist. He had seized power contrary to the will of the voters. And from the beginning, I have been urging, and I believe the administration is working towards this, that there should be free and fair elections. It’s not our job –

KRISTEN WELKER:

Before an oil deal is finalized?

SEN. TED CRUZ:

– to decide who the leaders should be. I don’t think the timing matters as much of the one versus the other. I think the oil deal will move as rapidly forward as it can. And by the way, you also have Chevron looking to put billions of dollars of investment to expedite the production of the oil. That will benefit American consumers and benefit American jobs. But I think free and fair elections need to proceed. And they need to proceed rapidly. I believe they should proceed no — no later than mid-way through next year. And so my hope and understanding is the administration is working and working rapidly to do that.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Okay. A lot more to get to. And we’re running out of time here. The 2028 presidential race will begin right after the midterms as you know, Senator. You addressed speculation that you might be considering another run for office. I want to play that, get your reaction on the other side.

\[BEGIN TAPE\]

SEN. TED CRUZ:

It’s no secret that I want to be president. I ran for president.

LT. DAN PATRICK:

Are you going to run again?

SEN. TED CRUZ:

I came close.

LT. DAN PATRICK:

Are you going to run again?

SEN. TED CRUZ:

Time will tell.

\[END TAPE\]

KRISTEN WELKER:

Are you seriously considering running for president in 2028, Senator?

SEN. TED CRUZ:

You know, the Book of Ecclesiastes tells us there’s a time for every season. And this is not that season right now. This is the season of the midterms. And I’ll tell you, I am spending my time on the road campaigning for candidates all over the country. These are the most consequential midterms we have ever had. In the last decade, there has not been another Republican who’s campaigned for more Senate candidates, more House candidates, more gubernatorial candidates than I have. I’m going to be on the road non-stop from now to Election Day. If the Democrats take the Senate and House, we will see the entire Trump legislative agenda grind to a halt. We will see non-stop impeachment circus. We will see a relentless attack of subpoenas and investigation. And I think most voters don’t want massive gridlock and obstruction from Washington. That’s what the Democrats are campaigning on. They’re campaigning on: We hate Donald Trump. I think most Americans want to see good policies, good jobs put — put in place. And so I’m going to spend my time between now and election day fighting for the midterms.

KRISTEN WELKER:

And just quick yes or no because I want to get to your book. You clearly, It’s on the table, though, a possible run?

SEN. TED CRUZ:

As I said, there will be a time for that conversation.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Okay. Let’s talk about your book, “Going Further: The Incomparable Clarence Thomas.” I did read the book, Senator. You acknowledge in this book you are writing about a controversial figure in American life. We’re not going to get into all of his controversies here of course. But you describe in detail his painful, his impoverished upbringing as a Black boy in the 1950s. What do you see as the biggest misconception about Justice Clarence Thomas?

SEN. TED CRUZ:

Well, I think for a lot of folks on the left, they don’t understand who he is. And they’ve been fed a lot of reasons to just hate him. We’re in such a partisan world that the two sides yell at each other. And so if you’re — if you’re coded left, Thomas sort of like Donald Trump is coded right, and you’re supposed to hate him. I believe Clarence Thomas is a true American hero. I’ve known him for over 30 years. This book began because I went to him and asked. And he agreed to sit and do about nine and a half hours of one-on-one exclusive interviews. And that’s a lot of the basis for the material of the book. And I have to say his life journey is extraordinary as you mentioned, Kristen. He was born in abject poverty in rural Georgia, Pin Point, Georgia. He was raised by his grandparents. His grandfather was a hard man who taught him discipline, who worked him to the bone. He actually studied for years to be a priest, his first desire — the world almost didn’t have Justice Thomas. The world almost had instead Father Thomas. But then in the ‘60s, he grew disillusioned with the church. He didn’t see the church as standing up nearly effectively enough to racial discrimination, racial bigotry. And so he left the seminary. And he got angry. He was angry at God. He was angry at the church. And he went to college. He went to Holy Cross and then Yale Law School. And at college and law school, Clarence Thomas was an angry left-wing radical. He was in camo pants and combat boots. He had Malcolm X posters on the wall –

KRISTEN WELKER:

Can I pick up on that point, Senator?

SEN. TED CRUZ:

Black Panther rallies. He was part of –

KRISTEN WELKER:

Can –

SEN. TED CRUZ:

– a riot in Harvard Square.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Can I pick up on that point? Because I want to read a little bit of your book. And that’s the part I want to read. You describe that time at Yale Law School. You say, quote, “It would several more years before Thomas, still an angry young man, dressed in Army fatigues and ‘out of the habit of good grooming,’ as he put it, would be able to purge his heart of anger and come to embrace the conservative principles that are today the bedrock of his jurisprudence.” Justice Thomas, of course, ultimately would go on to be one of the deciding factors in declaring affirmative action unconstitutional, writing, “It demeans us all.” What do you say to those who argue Justice Thomas has overturned the very legal decisions that helped him get to the court?

SEN. TED CRUZ:

Well, I would say that there is a bitterness that is directed at Justice Thomas that is profoundly unfair. If you look at Clarence Thomas, Antonin Scalia was every bit as conservative as Justice Thomas. But yet, Scalia didn’t have the scorn, the contempt, the derision. And the left I think has a real bigotry. They look at Clarence Thomas and they say, “How dare a Black man believe what he believes?” And Clarence Thomas is someone who is not going to be told what to believe. And I will tell you he learned many of his lessons — so I do really three things in the book, one tell his life story which is just extraordinary. No justice in history has come from such abject poverty, such brazen racism to the absolute pinnacle of American law. So I tell that story. Number two, what you just referenced, Kristen, I chronicle the shift from an angry left-wing radical to one of the most important conservative livers — leaders to have ever lived. And then third, what I do is I take-- he is now the second-longest Supreme Court justice in history. In two years, Clarence Thomas will be the longest-serving Supreme Court justice America’s ever had. I try to take 35 years of jurisprudence and explain it in a way that is real and accessible. This book, you don’t have to be a lawyer to read this book. This book is designed so that you can know Clarence Thomas. And you look at the question of race. For him, the question of race — you know when he came out to Yale Law School, he was at the top of his class? He went and interviewed at law firms. And not a single law firm would hire him because when the law schools are essentially saying, “We’re hiring based on race and not on merit,” they didn’t believe he had the learning. I recount the story that he took a 15-cent sticker from a cigar box. And he stuck it on his Yale Law School degree because that’s what he thought the degree was worth. And he’s experienced first-hand the negative consequences of discriminating based on race.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Senator –

SEN. TED CRUZ:

And Clarence Thomas believes, and I think he’s right in this, that the constitution does not allow discriminating based on race, that it is pernicious.

KRISTEN WELKER:

All right. Senator Ted Cruz, unfortunately we are out of time. But thank you very much for joining us. We really appreciate it.

SEN. TED CRUZ:

Thank you, Kristen.

KRISTEN WELKER:

And when we come back, Democratic Congressman James Clyburn joins me next.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Welcome back. Joining me now is Democratic Congressman James Clyburn of South Carolina. Congressman Clyburn, welcome back to Meet the Press.

REP. JAMES CLYBURN:

Well, thank you very much for having me back.

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KRISTEN WELKER:

Well, thank you so much for being here. I do want to start with what we just heard from Senator Cruz. We were talking about, of course, Justice Clarence Thomas. In 1991, you actually testified in favor of Clarence Thomas’s confirmation to the Supreme Court. I want to play a little bit of that video.

\[BEGIN TAPE\]

REP. JAMES CLYBURN:

It’s a pleasure for me to be here today to present testimony in favor of my good friend, Clarence Thomas. I have known Clarence for ten years and I consider him to be a personal and professional friend, in spite of the fact that he shares a conservative Republican philosophy.

\[END TAPE\]

KRISTEN WELKER:

Do you stand by your decision to make the case for Clarence Thomas’s confirmation?

REP. JAMES CLYBURN:

Absolutely not. You know, I have made mistakes in my life, and that’s one that I made. And I will own up to that mistake. The fact of the matter is I had faith and confidence in the fact that his background and experiences would instruct him in his professionalism, especially sitting on the bench. We had worked together when he was chair of the Equal Opportunity Commission. And of course, I was running the state agency here in South Carolina. We had differences over how that agency should run. But I also thought that he believed in precedents of the law. And I felt sure that he would be there upholding those precedents set down in 1954 in the Broad v. Board of Education decision. I thought that he would follow those court decisions that upheld the Voting Rights Act, the Civil Rights Act. I had no idea that Clarence Thomas would rebel the way he has against his own background and experiences. He was raised by his grandfather and he has shown very little sensitivity to the environment his grandfather grew up, down in Pin Point, Georgia, just south of where I now sit. And so yes, that was a mistake on my part and I own up to it.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Okay, well, since we are on the topic of the court, let’s speak more broadly about it. Former Vice President Kamala Harris shares some of your criticisms, clearly. She’s called for expanding the Supreme Court from nine justices to 13. Do you support adding four more seats to the Supreme Court, Congressman?

REP. JAMES CLYBURN:

Yes, I do. I think that we are in a position now that calls from some significant actions taken by the Congress, and we ought to expand — and 13 is a pretty good number. A baker’s dozen would be a good number to have on the court. And I would hope we would get people on the court who will follow the constitutional underpinnings of this great nation of ours. The 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments have been interpreted different ways over the years. And we had in the Warren Court an interpretation of those amendments that I thought would be set for the future of the country. We have now a Supreme Court that has decided to reverse course, and take this country back, I say, to those rulings of Justice Taney, that said that no Black man has any rights that the white man must respect. That was the Supreme Court that made that decision. I had hoped that Clarence Thomas would follow the mordant underpinnings of that constitution of ours, but he has not done so. In fact, he’s decided to go all the way from an angry leftist to a very angry rightist.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Okay. Let’s talk about the midterms and let’s talk about your state of South Carolina. Senator Darline Graham, as you know, the sister of the late Senator Lindsey Graham, did win her primary. She’s going to be facing off against Dr. Annie Andrews, the Democrat running in that Senate race. Do you believe Dr. Andrews can win given that no Democrat has won that Senate seat since the 1990s, Congressman?

REP. JAMES CLYBURN:

I do believe Dr. Andrews can win, and I do believe that she will win. The only thing that would stop her from winning this race is for us to not do our part to turn out the vote. I have said before, and people seem to misrepresent this: we have to do a better job of turning our base voters out. When the other side is turning out 71% and we are turning out 59%, we need to take stock of why that is happening. But that did happen in the last election. I take some responsibility for that. I’ve been working on that very vigilantly. I spent yesterday and the day before, and I’ll be spending time this afternoon working on the turn out the vote effort –

KRISTEN WELKER:

Alright.

REP. JAMES CLYBURN:

– that I think will update what we’ve been doing in the last few years, and make for a much better turnout. And if that were to happen, I think that Dr. Andrews will do well in this election.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Congressman Clyburn, I had the opportunity to interview Leader Hakeem Jeffries and he has not ruled out impeaching President Trump should Democrats take back control of the House. But some Democrats have said to me privately that that would just be a distraction, to impeach President Trump for a third time. Do you believe Democrats should impeach President Trump if they take back the House?

REP. JAMES CLYBURN:

If the Democrats were to take back the House, and I feel confident that we will, our first order of business ought to be developing an accessible and affordable campaign effort that will yield what I will call making this country, its greatness, accessible and affordable for all of its citizens –

KRISTEN WELKER:

Do you rule out impeachment?

REP. JAMES CLYBURN:

I don’t want to forget about the American people.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Do you rule out supporting impeachment?

REP. JAMES CLYBURN:

I don’t rule it out, but I don’t rule it in. No, I don’t. But I don’t think that should be our priority if we get into office. Our priority ought to be making housing, education, energy, healthcare affordable and accessible for all of our citizens. Impeaching the president will not do that. We need to focus on what is necessary to make education available for our children, making healthcare affordable for our children, making housing affordable, making energy affordable. That’s where the focus ought to be.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Okay. Congress --

REP. JAMES CLYBURN:

And we can walk and chew gum at the same time, and maybe do both.

KRISTEN WELKER:

All right. A few more questions for you, and we’re almost out of time. I have to ask you about what’s happening in Michigan, the Senate race there. Dr. Abdul El-Sayed has apologized to Jewish Democrats for comments he made after the attack on a synagogue in March when he said, quote, “Hurt people hurt people.” That comes as he’s also faced scrutiny over his association with Hasan Piker, who some Democrats this week denounced for what they called antisemitic remarks from Piker. Do you believe that this divide within the Democratic Party over Israel and antisemitism is becoming a political liability that could hurt Democrats in November?

REP. JAMES CLYBURN:

I don’t think will hurt Democrats at all. Some Democrats who get painted with that brush will have to defend the things that they’ve said. I have spoken with the good doctor. He’s our nominee. I support his election. I take him at his word. He has apologized. He says he’s — he will not campaign with Piker anymore. I think that it’s worth taking him at his word. All of us deserve second chances.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Very quickly, Rob Sand, the Democratic candidate for governor in Iowa, says former Vice President Kamala Harris should not run again in 2028. When you look to 2028, Congressman, do you think Kamala Harris should run for President again?

REP. JAMES CLYBURN:

Now, that’s up to Kamala Harris. I supported her when she ran the last time. I would consider her among all the others if she were to run again. But whether or not she should run is a very personal family decision that I will leave up to her and her family.

KRISTEN WELKER:

All right.

REP. JAMES CLYBURN:

And when they make that decision, whatever it is, I will then make determinations as to what my actions would be going forward.

KRISTEN WELKER:

All right. Congressman Jim Clyburn, thank you so very much for being here. We really appreciate it.

REP. JAMES CLYBURN:

Thank you very much for having me.

KRISTEN WELKER:

When we come back, can President Trump turn the midterms into a referendum on him? And how divided are the Democrats? The panel is next.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Welcome back, the panel is here. NBC News Senior National Political reporter Sahil Kapur, Amna Nawaz, co-anchor of PBS NewsHour, Lanhee Chen, fellow at the Hoover Institution, and Adrienne Elrod, former senior advisor to Vice President Kamala Harris. Welcome to all of you. So much to talk about. Sahil, we’re coming on the heels of a week where President Trump is pleading with Republicans to basically see him as being on the ballot. Based on your conversations, your sources, what are they saying to you about that strategy?

SAHIL KAPUR:

Well, firstly Kristen, it’s not a particularly new strategy. President Trump tried a vision of this in 2018, said, “I’m on the ticket, you’ve got to show up.” What I’m hearing from Republicans is that A, it’s a very difficult puzzle to solve with no clear solution. There is one set of Republicans who believe this is a good idea for President Trump to lean in because that one-third of the country, the MAGA base, we know they don’t particularly like turning out when he isn’t on the ballot. And there’s no path for Republicans unless they have a strong turnout there. He’s got to bring them out. But the other problem from another set of Republicans, I’m hearing deep anxiety because President Trump’s approval rating has fallen under 40% consistently for the last few months in averages. And his approval rating on the economy, the bottom has fallen out on that. He has always been strong on the economy. People perceived him as being a good steward of the economy. Now that’s fallen to as low as the twenties. And that brings me to Ralph Alvarado, the Kentucky House candidate, who just a few days ago, I reported that he’d scrubbed his website of every mention of President Trump. Look at the side by side there.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Extraordinary.

SAHIL KAPUR:

He deleted a photo of him standing with President Trump and he’s out rebranding himself from an America First fighter to an independent leader. This is a district Trump won by 15 points. If that’s not a warning sign, I don’t know what is.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Wow. I mean, Amna, what a great anecdote. It says so much about how this strategy of nationalizing these midterms cuts both ways.

AMNA NAWAZ:

It does. I’ll also say if President Trump wants these midterms nationalized, Democrats would agree. They would very much like these midterms nationalized. They want to tie Trump to these candidates. Look, it’s undeniable. He has a strong grip on the base, right? The Never Trumpers have been pushed to the fringes of the party. He also has vast resources in that MAGA Inc. super PAC that haven’t yet really been deployed. And I know a lot of candidates are eager to see where those go. But as Sahil points out, low approval rating, under water on the economy, under water on immigration, which was also a key issue for him. Rising prices for the American consumer, an unpopular war in Iran, all of this is true, right? So he could be a liability depending on the district. At the same time, he’s the only force we know who can energize the base in the way that he can. Candidates will have to make a decision like Mr. Alvarado did, district by district, race by race.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Well, Lanhee, that’s the backdrop to these hard-fought races, like the ones that we’re seeing play out in Texas, which is a toss up, which is a surprise to so many people. But what do you see as John Cornyn’s role? You heard me discuss it with Senator Ted Cruz. Do you think that Ken Paxton can win that race without John Cornyn out on the campaign trail? Because what he’s doing right now is criticizing him from the sidelines.

LANHEE CHEN:

I think ultimately Sen. Cornyn will campaign on behalf of the Republican nominee. But I’m not sure it matters a whole lot, to the point we’ve been talking about. The dynamic here in a midterm election, what it really comes down to is how do you close some of this enthusiasm gap? I think for Republicans, that’s the challenge. And there’s really two answers, right? One is to disqualify whatever Democrat is running. And you saw Senator Cruz try to do that with James Talarico, tie him to the far left, talk about some of these policy positions that are going to be unfavorable, frankly, with voters in Texas. And the second part of the puzzle is President Trump. I do think that he has a unique ability to motivate Republican voters in a way that no other Republican does. So to the idea of nationalizing the election, I don’t know if Republicans have a choice, because Democrats are going to nationalize it anyway. You might as well take something that could be a disadvantage and try to use it as an advantage. Now that’s not going to work in every district. It’s not going to work in every state. But part of closing this gap is bringing President Trump to the fore I think in a lot of these races. I think Texas is a principal example of one of those.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Okay. Another big race we’re watching in Michigan, where we’re seeing this debate play out over Israel. I just want to remind our viewers what happened this week. There’s been a lot of attention on Abdul El-Sayed’s response to comments made by streamer Hasan Piker. He’s a far left-wing streamer. Piker suggested basically that pro-Israel sentiment could invite violence towards American Jews, which prompted widespread backlash. Now El-Sayed did push back against these comments. He said he has no plans to campaign with him, as you just heard the congressman say. But Adrienne, do Democrats need to more directly address this divide and these continuing questions that continue to be raised about anti-Semitism?

ADRIENNE ELROD:

Well, I think Kristen regardless of what political party you belong to, you should always condemn anti-Semitism. I mean, that is just campaigning 101, you know, being a human 101. It’s what you should do. But well look, I think he’s got a challenge here, because, you know, he did tack so far to the left during the primary. Now he has to win a very, very close state. We must remember that Mike Rogers, in a very, in a favorable cycle in 2024 for a lot of Republicans, but he only lost Michigan by half a point. He’s on the ballot again. He is seen by, I think, a lot of sort of swing voters as somebody that they could actually work with. They see, as somebody who’s more middle of the road, even though he has embraced a lot of Trump’s policies, he is somebody they’ve known for a long time they can support. So I understand what El-Sayed is trying to do. I also, you know, give credit to Democrats for backing him and saying, “Well,” it was just like Mr. Clyburn did, “he is our guy.” But he’s going to have a really, have to strongly condemn some of these comments even more so if he wants to try to win this seat.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Amna, how do you see this divide over Israel within the Democratic Party playing out in this general election cycle?

AMNA NAWAZ:

Yeah, I think Adrienne laid it out really well there. Let’s remember, El-Sayed is running in a party in which the views towards the state of Israel have shifted dramatically in recent years. They are more Democrats who are increasingly critical of Israel’s war conduct, increasingly critical of U.S. aid going to the state of Israel. That’s a debate that’s going on in the Democratic Party. That criticism of the Israeli state policy is different from anti-Semitism, which we have seen a dangerous and dramatic surge in. So absolutely, El-Sayed’s running for a big office. He should face big, tough questions, and he is. Jewish voters deserve that. They need those answers to make decisions. Muslim voters in his state, and countrywide, deserve answers about some of the anti-Muslim rhetoric we’ve seen from the president, his advisers, and sitting members of Congress. Black voters deserve answers about why Congressman Mike Collins’ former staffer posted Klan and Nazi content, and his son-in-law posted white nationalist content. If we all agree these associations, this language, this bigotry is dangerous, then they should all be facing those questions and not just during elections.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Well, it’s a great point. Please stick around. We have a lot more to discuss with the panel. But when we come back: She was beloved by presidents of both parties but determined to stay out of politics. Our look back at Dolly Parton’s Washington legacy is next. Stay with us.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Welcome back. Dolly Parton always kept politics at arm’s length, famously saying she had “just as many Republican fans as Democrats.” Yet her appeal reached all the way to the White House and across party lines. For more than five decades, presidents and first families embraced Dolly, drawn to her music, her personality, and her uniquely American story. The Clintons were such big fans, then First Lady Hillary Clinton even dressed up as Dolly for her birthday. But perhaps nothing captured her delicate dance with politics better than the Presidential Medal of Freedom. President Barack Obama called it a “screw up” that he never gave her one. President Donald Trump offered it twice, and she turned him down both times, first because her husband was ill, then because of COVID. And when President Joe Biden approached her about the same honor, Dolly hesitated again, worried accepting it might look political. But one of her most memorable presidential moments came decades earlier. In 1979, President Jimmy Carter welcomed Dolly to Washington, where she performed for a sitting president for the first time before singing her favorite song, “Coat of Many Colors.” Dolly Parton marveled at what it meant that two people from humble, Southern beginnings had ended up there together.

DOLLY PARTON:

I think it’s a wonderful thing that we can grow up in a country where simple farm folks can grow up to be the president of the United States and me up here on stage to sing songs for the president and his wife and all you folks.

\[DOLLY SINGS “COAT OF MANY COLORS”\]

KRISTEN WELKER:

A true icon, Dolly Parton, 80 years old.

KRISTEN WELKER:

And welcome back, the panel is still here. Amna, let’s talk about this new trade war that’s brewing between President Trump and Canada. President Trump this week said he wanted to rename Lake Ontario to Lake America. What are the potential implications of this trade war coming right now so close to the midterms?

AMNA NAWAZ:

I think Republican candidates are going to have to answer for it. Look, the economy is the number-one issue for American voters, whether you live in a border community or not. Tariffs are felt across the country. We’re still dealing with high prices. There’s still stubborn inflation. We saw the Fed chair Kevin Warsh this week basically say there’s work to be done. Meaning rates are going to stay steady or maybe even go up. So Democrats want to tie the president to these policies. The candidates on the ground are going to have to defend them, as Americans want to see the prices come down. But I did have a conversation with one former mayor in Ontario, Canada. He mentioned the fact they’d already been hit by steel tariffs. That meant less money coming across the border to Michigan. Money to the restaurants and the breweries and a golf course there that takes Canadian dollars too. And that’s hurt both communities on both sides. He also said when there is another rhetorical kind of attack, like this renaming of the lake, Canadians dig in. They are happy to back their government, happy to back Carney, happy to ramp up this trade war.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Yeah, given that, Sahil, how is this playing? What are your sources telling you about how this trade war is playing out here at home?

SAHIL KAPUR:

Well, the implications are nothing good for the candidates who are ultimately associated with it. There are two states where I think it’s going to have the biggest impact in the midterms, Maine and Michigan. Both states sell about 40% of their total exports to Canada. So it’s going to be a serious economic hit, because talks between the U.S. and Canada have collapsed. Both countries are hitting the gas fully on the trade war. Susan Collins of Maine is vocally objecting to President Trump’s trade war. She’s voted in favor of resolutions to revoke his tariffs on Canada. Mike Rogers in Michigan put out a statement yesterday saying Trump is right to put America first, essentially supporting the intent on this. You can add Ohio, Texas, and Iowa to the states where major Senate races are happening this fall, which trade a lot with Canada. So the economic implications are going to be felt. I’ll give you two numbers here. A recent Reuters/Ipsos poll found that the president’s approval on the economy is 26%, on the cost of living, it’s 20%. Those are scary numbers for Republicans on the ballot.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Given that it’s the number-one issue for voters. Let’s talk, folks, about 2028. There are going to be implications for everything that happens here as we look toward 2028. Lanhee, it was interesting to hear from Senator Ted Cruz. He did not want to make any announcements today about whether or not he was running for president. But clearly did not rule it out. And we actually have some reporting, sources telling our NBC News team, Courtney Kube and others, that Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has told people that he’s also considering a potential run for president. Do you think this GOP field is going to be larger than maybe we’re anticipating?

LANHEE CHEN:

I do. I think there’s going to be a lot of people who will run for president in 2028 for a couple of reasons. First of all, there’s an economy behind running for president now. I think people do it in part to raise their own profiles, to create other opportunities, et cetera. But I think more importantly, that’s the way President Trump wants it. He wants this to be an open contest where a lot of people are competing for ultimately his endorsement. The single most important factor in who the Republican nominee will be in 2028 will be who Donald Trump endorses. And the longer this sort of goes on, the longer this is an Apprentice-style type audition, I think it puts President Trump in the spotlight. And I think that is ultimately what will determine who comes out of this alive.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Yeah, it’s a great point. Adrienne, what are you watching for on the GOP side, but also obviously there are going to be a lot of candidates on the Democratic side. Congress Clyburn didn’t give a full-throated, “Yes, Kamala Harris should run.” He said, “That’s going to be up to her.”

ADRIENNE ELROD:

Yeah, no, I thought that — I thought that comment was really interesting, because he was a big supporter of hers in the previous election. I mean, look, first of all, Mr. Clyburn’s endorsement is going to be more important than ever, because South Carolina is the first state. It was important before, it’s really going to be important this cycle. As far as I’m concerned for the Democratic field, the more people who want to run, who have the experience, who have the qualifications, who want to make this country a better place, who want to help the American people, go for it, jump in. I think our party is ready. And I think frankly our country is ready for a real debate about the issues with some new, fresh faces, some new voices who have not run for president before, and maybe some who have. But I think we’re ready for a robust debate around the issues. I also agree with what Lanhee said. I think sometimes we’ve been perceiving that it’s just going to be either JD Vance or Marco Rubio. I think we’re going to see a lot more on the Republican field. I think that’s what Donald Trump wants. I think he wants to see an Apprentice-style type of primary where he, you know, you’re up or down, who’s in his good graces, who’s not. Because ultimately, at the end of the day, no matter how unpopular he is right now among the country, with 20% approval ratings on some things, he is still immensely popular with the MAGA base.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Absolutely.

ADRIENNE ELROD:

And his endorsement will dictate who wins the primary for Republicans.

LANHEE CHEN:

The other thing is, I don’t know that the electorate in 2028 is going to resemble what the 2026 electorate looks like. I think there’s a tendency for people to want to say, “Well, 2026 will tell us about 2028.” Or it won’t, quite frankly, because we don’t know necessarily what the Republican Party will look like. We don’t know what’s going to happen with this DSA energy that we’re seeing right now. And a lot of that will influence who the nominees are for the respective parties.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Yes. Sahil, you’ve spent some time in South Carolina. What’s the buzz on the ground there?

SAHIL KAPUR:

Well, first if I could just say, Ted Cruz, your interview, he dodged two of your questions about whether he’s going to run. Ted Cruz ran in the 2016 cycle, he won 11 primaries in states. He’s come closer to defeating Donald Trump than any Republican has. And I don’t think he’s ever stopped wanting to be president. I do expect him to run. I think there’s going to be a Trump lane, whoever Trump wants to be the nominee is going to be the favorite, probably. But there’s going to be a whole other, in the non-Trump lane, who can genuinely compete, especially if Trump maybe sort of falls out of favor. On the Democratic side, they’ve picked South Carolina as their first primary. Obviously they recognize that the Black vote is extremely important, there are a lot of them in South Carolina. And I think James Clyburn, once again, is going to be a king maker.

KRISTEN WELKER:

Oh he absolutely will. Amna, what are you kind of watching for as we start to see 2028 slowly start to come together?

AMNA NAWAZ:

You know, I think these predictions that it’s going to be a noisier, messier landscape than has previously been articulated in this cycle, it’s wide open, right? I think on both the Democratic and the Republican side. And that means a lot of big conversations around a lot of big issues. Specifically on the Republican side, we have not seen a modern political force like Donald Trump in this country for many generations. He’s going to be a force regardless of what happens.

KRISTEN WELKER:

All right guys. Fantastic conversation. Thank you all so much for being here. That is all for today. Thank you so much for watching. We will be back next week, because if it’s Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.