Face the Nation full transcript, August 23, 2026

that is an effective treatment so far.

How do you understand this mRNA breakthrough?

DOCTOR SCOTT GOTTLIEB (Former FDA Commissioner): You know, this can be highly significant. This is something that we've been working on for 30 or 40 years right now. And what's changed is that we have the ability to find proteins on the surface of cancer cells that can be used to try to train the immune system to identify cancer and prevent cancer reoccurrence (ph).

And so, this isn't a vaccine in a traditional sense. This is a form of cancer immunotherapy where you're delivering mRNA to try to train the body on proteins that are found on the surface of cancer cells so that you can teach the t-cells in the body to spot the cancer should it recur.

And what the trial demonstrated – and we don't have the full results. We have to wait for the top-line results to come out. But what the trial demonstrated was that it prevents cancer recurrence so that basically when the body is trained on these specific antigens, the t-cells can be able to spot the cancer if it should recur in other parts of the body.

I lost sound. I apologize.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Oh, it's OK. Can you hear me now, Doctor Gottlieb? Can you hear me now? I think we're trying to fix that.

Let me take a quick commercial break and let's see if we can get this fixed so all of us can hear each other.

We'll be right back.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to "FACE THE NATION."

We had been having some technical issues, but I believe we can now, once again, hear Dr. Gottlieb, the former FDA commissioner, and that he can hear us.

Sorry about those problems there. You can hear us?

DOCTOR SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Thanks.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Great.

DOCTOR SCOTT GOTTLIEB: I can.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I wanted to pick up, when we left you, you had been explaining the promising mRNA research. In terms of what the White House has said about this breakthrough, they said it vindicated HHS' decision to reduce federal funding of mRNA vaccine research, arguing the private sector can do it. What do you make of that spin?

DOCTOR SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Yes, look, I think that the statements from HHS pertain in particular to mRNA vaccines used for infectious diseases. This is different. Like I said, this is not a vaccine in the traditional sense. It's a cancer immunotherapy. I think it's a misnomer to call it a vaccine. There's a lot of different strategies that we use to try to train the immune system to identify cancer, and prevent cancer recurrence right now, including CAR T cells and other kinds of strategies that have been around for decades.

And that's what this is. It happens to uses MRNA to try to elicit those cancer antigens, those cancer proteins that are going to ultimately train t-cells to identify cancer that might have spread to different parts of the body and weren't excised with surgery or with up-front chemotherapy. But it's not a vaccine.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

DOCTOR SCOTT GOTTLIEB: This is training the immune system to identify cancer and prevent recurrence.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

You were the FDA commissioner at the beginning of the first Trump administration. And I know you've said to date, you think the FDA has been doing a pretty good job handling these foodborne outbreaks that the country has been experiencing.

HHS is pushing back pretty hard on any criticism of what's going on, saying that when it comes to recalls, they're at the lowest levels in more than a decade. Does that mean they're doing their job really well, or does that mean they're not doing their job?

DOCTOR SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Yes, look, I wouldn't point to recalls as a measure of whether they're doing a good job or not doing a good job. Recalls really don't comport with whether or not the overall program is effective. And I don't think the program is not being effective. I think if you look at this year, there haven't been more outbreaks in what we traditionally see, with the exception of that cyclospora outbreak, which was an extraordinary outbreak and I think points to real problems with produce that we are sourcing from portions of Mexico, where you can't send in inspectors. Mexicans and the U.S. can't send inspectors into those regions because they're controlled by cartels.

As far as the recalls themselves, these are largely voluntary. There's only been one mandatory recall in the history of the FDA. That was back in 2018. We took it when I was there. So, these are voluntary recalls by companies. And there could be the fact that recalls are down because companies aren't taking recalls. It could be that recalls are down because they're not identifying outbreaks. And, in fact, recalls aren't down. When you look at the actual numbers, recalls are up slightly. It's just not been the metric I would point to, to access the overall effectiveness of the program.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

DOCTOR SCOTT GOTTLIEB: I think the FDA has done a reasonable job this year getting on top of these outbreaks when they've been identified by CDC.

MARGARET BRENNAN: The FDA oversees roughly 20 percent of the U.S. economy. This is an important agency with oversight of food and drugs. The president did make a new selection. He says Dr. Heidi Overton should be the next commissioner. She's going to face some skeptics in Congress, including Republicans. Senator Bill Cassidy, who cited her lack of managerial experience and, as he put it, her "active role in the nonsensical vaccine executive order" makes him question her commitment to standing up for science and children's health."

Do you think she is a strong candidate?

DOCTOR SCOTT GOTTLIEB: I think she could be a strong candidate. Look, she has a deep policy background, having worked in the White House on the Domestic Policy Council for two years and oversaw FDA from that position.

If you talk to people inside the agency, both senior career staff as well as the politicals, they feel very confident in her leadership. She has protected the agency on certain issues. They felt that she helped them advance their public health prerogatives.

She also worked on the Covid response, trying to get testing back up and running in the early days of Covid and was effective in that role if you talk to talk people who worked with her. So, I think she could be quite good in this role.

I think this is, first and foremost, a policy role. It's really not an operational role. I think you need to have good operational people around and. You have to hire and retain good people and put them in key roles. You need strong leadership in the centers. And I think she has a sense that she needs to do that. She's been around FDA long enough to know that.

But this is a policy role. It's a political job.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

DOCTOR SCOTT GOTTLIEB: She certainly has that experience. And I think having that relationship to the White House is going to be important.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, she's going to take questions about comments she has made about the abortion drug Mifepristone. She seemed to indicate she wants more federal restrictions on it. She stood next to the president in that Oval Office event where he – and she personally praised European countries who do not mandate vaccines for school but still have high vaccination rates. How tough is this confirmation hearing going to be?

DOCTOR SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Well, look, I don't think she's going to lose votes because she's not skeptical of vaccines enough. I think she's going to lose votes if people perceive her as being weak on that issue. There's three senators in particular that, I think, are going to be concerned about that. If you look at the criticism she's been getting on X, it's mostly from the anti-vaxers.

I think she's reasonably good on these issues. I think that press conference was unfortunate. I think, unfortunately, it's table stakes these days to getting a high-level appointment in a public health job in this administration to evidence some mixed messaging around vaccines. I'd like to see someone make a very full-throated statement in support of the childhood immunization schedule and basic protections for children. That's not what we're getting these days.

I think hopefully when she has time to explain herself before Congress and get into this in a most substantive way and not just a press conference in the White House, you're going to hear something more thoughtful from her. That's my expectation. That would be my hope.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We will watch it, if that hearing is scheduled.

Doctor Gottlieb, I'm glad we got you back and we could – we could hear you.

DOCTOR SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Thanks.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We'll be back in a moment.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: We go now to Florida Republican Congressman Byron Donalds. He's also now his party's gubernatorial nominee in the sunshine state.

Welcome to "FACE THE NATION."

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS (R-FL): Good morning, Margaret. Good to be with you.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you're a sitting congressman but this job that you are running for would make you the chief executive of the third largest state in the country. So, you'll have a lot of decision-making power over a number of things, including health policy. And I want to ask you about that because Florida has been at the forefront of the push to roll back vaccine mandates. In your state, the Department of Health can change some. Others, like polio and MMR vaccines are mandated under Florida law. If you're elected, are you going to go to the Department of Health and the state legislature and ask for repeals? If so, which ones?

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS: Well, first of all, Margaret, it's good to be with you.

Number one, I know that Governor DeSantis and our surgeon general, Doctor Ladapo have already made moves on the rule-making vaccines, the one – and put those under – essentially giving parents the ability to make those decisions for their children. I agree with that decision.

When it comes to polio, MMR, those are things that we want to make sure we study and really engage in before we make those determinations and work with the legislature before we make any of those decisions about requirements for those vaccines.

I think it's important also to note that President Trump did allow for expansion and really put, quite frankly, reversing the concentration around the vaccine schedule. I know that my oldest son, he's 22 years old, the vaccination schedule for him was very different for kids today. And so, spreading out that vaccination schedule, I think, does make sense. It gives the infant human body the ability to actually absorb and deal with that rate of vaccination.

But if we're going to talk health care, the bigger issue we have in the state of Florida is costs. And, number one, the Affordable Care Act is not working for Floridians. We have seen premiums jump over the last 15 years since it passed. Deductibles, out of control, 15 – for the last 15 years. And so, the current structure of health insurance in our country, under the Affordable Care Act, is not working – is not working for families, whether it's Florida or anywhere else in the United States.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS: This is why my proposal is price transparency. We want doctors' offices and hospitals –

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS: To post a real cash price for the top 20 services that they provide.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS: So, Floridians have an opportunity to see the real price, see the real cost and make determines about where they get their healthcare.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS: I think that's much more of a constructive conversation about costs and health care and trying to stabilize prices than just simply vaccinations.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. But that also doesn't address coverage for them or how they pay for them. But I hear you. I'm sure a lot of people would like to know what they're paying.

But in terms of keeping people healthy, nearly all of Florida is below the 95 percent immunization rate for herd immunity for measles. So, is your message to Florida parents, get your kids vaccinated against that one?

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS: No. Actually, my message to Floridians and, quite frankly to Americans is, the reason why we have seen a measles outbreak in certain parts of the country is because of rampant illegal immigration into the United States from the previous administration.

Margaret, before Joe Biden went into office, when our borders were basically secure –

MARGARET BRENNAN: What evidence do you have of that?

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS: Margaret, we've seen the outbreaks in El Paso, Texas, in southwest Florida, where I live, and many other parts where you know that you have a situation, people have come into the country illegally, have not had that vaccination schedule. And not the ones today on young kids, that parents do have concerns about. I'm talking about previous ones, where people weren't even getting the measles vaccine or mumps and rubella.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you want them to be vaccinated?

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS: So, the key thing is you, number one, you've got to control immigration into your country. You can't have an entire segment of people, more than 10 million, come into your country without that vaccination schedule. That's how you end up having some of these outbreaks.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS: And so that's number one. But number two, and I will tell, we can talk vaccinations, but the real issue in health care is the cost for Americans and the cost for Floridians.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS: And we have already seen that the regulatory framework of the Affordable Care Act is driving up costs on every American.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS: And that's what I want to stay focused on as the next governor of Florida.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. So, you want vaccinated immigrants.

Let me ask you about some of those immigrants. There are –

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS: Actually, I want – I just want legal immigrants.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Uh-huh. OK.

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS: To be clear, I just want legal immigration with assimilation.

MARGARET BRENNAN: That's what I want to ask –

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS: We cannot have open borders. And we cannot have illegal immigration in our country.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you about legal immigration.

There were 158,000 Haitians legally living in Florida under Temporary Protected Status, or TPS, until the Trump administration ended the program.

You know, when it comes to Haiti, the State Department tells Americans, don't go there for any reason at all. There's crime, there's terrorism, there's no health care access, there's kidnapping. You said that this TPS program was just to be a temporary refuge, but aren't all those conditions I listed there the reason you would want temporary refuge? Shouldn't there be some protection?

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS: Well, Margaret, number one, let's be – let's be specific to Haiti.

I've actually had meetings with the transitional government and the ambassador for the transitional government. They're working on security forces right now as we speak to begin to stabilize Haiti. They've got about a quarter to half of the country under control from the gangs that basically took over Haiti. And – that's number one.

Number two, you just said it at the top, TPS is a temporary program. The Biden administration, through enforcement, took the "t" off the program. They turned that into a permanent program. Not to mention catch and release. Not to mention how they bastardized asylum and didn't allow for true asylum cases to come to the United States. They blew up the borders. More than 10 million people came into our country.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS: And so, yes, there has to be a standard when it comes to immigration.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS: The Trump administration, in my view, making sure that it's a temporarily program is correct. But we are also working with the transitional government to make sure that the right security forces are in Haiti to stabilize that country.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS: So, that entire process is going to take time. What you can't do on immigration is just say that every program just run into perpetuity –

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS: With no end, because once you do that, you have the wrong incentive to make sure that people can return to their home country, stabilize that country and make sure that it returns to normalcy.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I hear you. I hear you. And hopefully you have your earpiece in there.

Congressman Carlos –

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS: I got it. I got it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. Carlos Jimenez, your fellow Floridian, said deporting Haitians under TPS would be a huge mistake for Florida. Another Florida Republican, Maria Elvira Salazar says those TPS holders are part of the backbone of our workforce in critical sectors like healthcare.

So, do you all have a plan to replace the loss of 100,000 Haitians who work in healthcare in Florida if they are deported?

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS: Well, let's just be very clear. You're talking about the labor force in Florida.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS: What we want to do is – the number one, we want to make sure that our kids coming out of high school are having internships and apprenticeships and a necessary workforce training to be able to work, whether it's health care or any other job field.

Right now half – about a third to a half of our kids are going into the college/university system. The other half, quite frankly, there is no strategy or plan for them to be successful. This is why I have a launchpad initiative in Florida where if you're a junior or a senior in high school, you can actually have those apprenticeships and internships so that by the time you graduate high school, you're walking directly into the job.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes. But this is an immediate shortage of healthcare workers.

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS: Hold on, Margaret. Hold on, Margaret. Number – hold on, Margert. Number two. Number two, there are jobs available in Florida. We want to change adult re-education, adult education, career source, have that really be super charged so people can transition from one job or going into those fields. That's number two.

Number three, and this is a broader American issue.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS: You cannot let the borders of our country be blown wide open and then talk about, well, we need people in this field or that field and not actually have consistent immigration policies.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS: And so a lot of what you're talking about really stems from terrible decisions when it comes to immigration from the Biden administration –

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes, I was asking about your plan.

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS: And, quite frankly, the problem with Democrats, like Angie Nixon, like David Jolly, that's the problem that we are presented with.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS: We have to have a stable standard in immigration and naturalization –

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS: And that comes with following the laws, not letting Democrats ignore our law, allow for illegal immigration, and look at the problems.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. That's federal. I was asking about your plan in your state to make up for the shortage of healthcare workers that are about to be deported. But we have to leave it there.

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS: Margaret, I just – I just – I just gave you the plan, Margaret. I just –

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes. I hear you. It's going to take a while.

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS: Margaret, I just gave you're the plan. But I'm also a member of Congress. And so, you have to have a standard for immigration, while making sure that our children in our schools today

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. OK.

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS: And young people working today have the ability to move into those fields and those careers –

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

REPRESENTATIVE BYRON DONALDS: While making enough money to build the American dream for themselves.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We'll watch your campaign.

Thank you very much. Congressman Donalds, who is standing for gubernatorial race in November.

We're going to turn now to another congressman, and that is Seth Mouton, who joins us from Salem, Massachusetts.

And Congressman Mouton wants to be senator Mouton. He's launched a primary challenge to Ed Markey.

Good to have you on the program, Congressman. The last –

REPRESENTATIVE SETH MOULTON (D-MA): Good to see you, Margaret.

MARGARET BRENNAN: The last time we saw a young challenger go after Senator Markey's seat, Markey won. How do you get the partisan enthusiasts to show up for you when he's got Senator Bernie Sanders and AOC behind him?

REPRESENTATIVE SETH MOULTON: Well, as "The Boston Globe" said in endorsing me – which was a switch for them, by the way, because they endorsed Senator Markey six years ago – the future is now. The world has changed. And Senator Markey is very much running the same campaign he did back in '20 when all those same people endorsed him.

But in the last debate that we just had this week, he explained to Massachusetts voters that he can't understand the different apps on his phone. He doesn't know which ones use A.I. And then he tried to clean it up by explaining that A.I. is like an automobile and we need to regulate it the way we regulate seatbelts.

So, the point is, the world has just moved on. It's not a personal thing with Ed Markey. In fact, he and I agree on most policies. It's about whether one Senate seat should belong to one person while the world is moving on without him. He's been there for – he's been in Washington for 50 years, Margaret.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes. And you have focused on the need for generational change for some time.

You tried to oust Nancy Pelosi from leadership in 2016, 2018. You pushed then for generational change. You ran for president in 2019. In 2024 you were the third member of Congress to say Biden should not run again.

So, big picture, it looks like you've been saying the Democratic Party has been on the wrong path for a very long time.

REPRESENTATIVE SETH MOULTON: Yes, that's fair. I mean this is very authentic to me. For the very first time I ran for Congress against a nine- term incumbent in my own party and I had many of those same establishment endorsers of Ed Markey campaigning against me. I've been willing to challenge the establishment when I don't think it's getting the job done.

And I'll be the first to admit that it's not always popular, right? It doesn't always resonate with people. But right now, it's desperately needed. More than seven out of 10 Democrats in Massachusetts say they want new Democratic Party leadership.

On day one of this campaign I said I'm not going to vote for Senator Schumer for senator leader – for Senate leader.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE SETH MOULTON: Well, not only is Markey supporting Schumer, he just took $62,000 from Schumer's fund to flip Senate seats. Money that Democrats raised across the country to go to Maine and Ohio and Alaska to flip seats from red to blue, he took that away from that victory fund to bail out his own campaign.

So, this is just a time when we do desperately need to challenge