Sen. John Fetterman on Democratic Divides, DSA & Israel — full transcript

**JON STEWART:** Hello everybody, welcome to The Weekly Show podcast on this summer day, August 4th, Tuesday, Primary Day, Election Day. Hear ye, hear ye, I voted sticker. That was my one-man show, called Primary Day, which happens in August, which as you know is great for turnout.

We don’t know actually what happened in those. We’re taping this podcast before the results are in. So by the time you hear it, you will know the results of all the hot primaries in Michigan and everywhere else. And it’ll look like we don’t and that we’re ignoring it, but we’re not ignoring it, people.

I’m not a time traveler, but we are going to be talking to somebody who has very strong opinions about what should happen in this very primary season, and he doesn’t know the results of it either. So we’re going to be talking about elections and the results of elections and what those elections might mean for people, all while ignoring the results of said elections, which might make us seem crazy. But there’s probably so much more in this conversation that’s going to make it seem crazy. So let’s just get to it.

So ladies and gentlemen, we’ll get right to it. We have with us today a senator, United States Senator from the great state of Pennsylvania. Go fighting Quakers. Ladies and gentlemen, Senator John Fetterman. Sir, first of all, where’s Senator Fetterman? All I see is a guy wearing a suit and tie.

## Senator Fetterman’s Unusual Wardrobe Choice


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** So yeah, this is not AI. It’s not AI. If I could AI impose a suit, I would, but no, yeah, I’m in a suit, but yeah, normally I—


**JON STEWART:** You have a job interview today?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** I thought, wait, I’m already in it, so maybe I could just be a treat for everybody.


**JON STEWART:** I feel terrible now.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** I thought, well, I’m sorry if you dressed in honor, you might not— business casual like this.

## Life as a Senator


**JON STEWART:** So how are things going down there? Do you like being a senator? Is that something that— is that an enjoyable job or is it just you sit around just fighting with everybody? What’s the vibe down there?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Well, I mean, it’s kind of a mixed thing. I mean, it’s obviously an honor to be one of Pennsylvania’s voices here in the United States Senate. And it’s also some of it’s professional wrestling, not really kind of important stuff, but some of it’s very important as well too. And that’s really why people, I assume, get into this. To be a part of that conversation.

So overall, I think I’ve said this, people would be surprised. It’s not exactly really glamorous. And now, like for me, I have a 300-square apartment here in D.C. back there.


**JON STEWART:** Look at you.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** It’s not like— there’s not a lot of snappy West Wing kind of dialogue back and forth thing. A lot of it’s more kind of like, hmm. Kind of a thing. But sometimes it is really important thing that will impact a lot of millions and millions of Americans.

## Government Shutdown and Recess


**JON STEWART:** Are you guys going to have your recess in August, or are they keeping you there?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** As far as I know, last night there was an overwhelming, like overwhelming, bipartisan procedural vote last night for a continuing resolution. And I think it was 89-4.


**JON STEWART:** Can I guess the 4? Yeah.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** No shutdown. No shutdown. Yeah.


**JON STEWART:** Rand Paul. Yeah.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Well, of course he votes no on like— he would be like cheeseburger and he would vote that s\\\\* down. I mean, right. But yeah. And then I think it was Warren and then I think Sanders. But overall, some people didn’t go there because it was a travel day, but that’s a strong statement saying that we want to avoid another shutdown. And I’m elated to know that. Without a doubt.

I mean, we’ve been through the 2 longest shutdowns of all American history. And that maybe at some time put me at odds with my party, because it’s always a bad thing to shut our government down. And it shuts down parts critical of our country. And it also punishes a lot of these workers. Now, everyone here in Congress are paid, but the people that aren’t are like the people on the front line, like at TSA and doing those things. So overall, we have to find a better way to figure out things without shutting our down in kind of a tantrum.

## Fetterman’s Relationship with the Democratic Party


**JON STEWART:** How at odds are you with the party? You know, you said it sometimes puts you at odds. You clearly, you’re the guy everybody points to now as you’re in the, I guess, Manchin or Sinema role, the kind of contrarian. So what’s your relationship now with them?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Yeah, thanks for bringing that up. And no, I mean, it’s really not that at all. I mean, I deeply respect them as well, too, but I’m not that— I think that’s an easy take to assume.

And that’s just not me. If you look at my voting record, I’m in 90-some percent voting the Democrat line.

And now how I differ— and that’s become much more and more pronounced— Israel, you know, after October 7th, the Gaza War. And nobody really saw how things would continue. We wouldn’t be part of it. Now here we have the Iranian war now, and then in smaller other kinds of way, shutting our government down. Countless kinds of vote to shut our government down. I would vote with the Republican side, not because I am a Republican, but just because the Democratic Party, we used to always be the party that says we must never shut our government down. That was part of what the Democratic Party really was.

And I represent Pennsylvania, really the most purple state really in the country. And now I don’t represent just Democrats, I represent all people here in Pennsylvania. So these views are firmly rooted in basic kinds of democratic values. But after the Trump reelection, that just kind of flipped some things on its head.

## Trump Derangement Syndrome and Democratic Party Concerns


**JON STEWART:** And do you attribute that to what they call Trump Derangement Syndrome? Do you believe that the Democratic Party in those instances is suffering?
**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** I agree. It is a real thing. And that makes it more difficult to try to call balls and strikes. And now, I’m aware that if I happen to disagree with like the party line, there’s a price to pay, but I think it’s more important to be, hey, I honestly think this is the right take and I think what’s appropriate.

And no, I mean, there’s a lot of stories of how I’ve become increasingly more unpopular with Democrats in my state, and I’m aware of it, but these were all very specific choices because I think this is the correct take. And now I would rather have people know what I happen to believe because again, they’re rooted in very democratic kinds of values.

## The Filibuster and Democratic Leverage


**JON STEWART:** Well, let me sort of tease that out a little bit because, you know, in America right now, the Republicans have the Senate, the House, the judiciary.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** They have the trifecta.


**JON STEWART:** Supreme Court, and they have the presidency. Democrats represent— it’s a pretty 50-50 country, wouldn’t you say? I mean, right now at least Democrats are represented by millions and millions and millions of votes, but they don’t really have the way that the Republicans have governed any say in anything.

And so wouldn’t you say that trying to use any leverage that they possibly could have to get things like reforms to ICE agents that don’t seem to be trained, that are creating violence in the streets of America, that aren’t going after the worst of the worst, but are frightening hardworking immigrants into staying in their homes— don’t you think that’s a legitimate reason to try and leverage whatever opportunity they would have? TDS seems like a convenient excuse for a lot of legitimate concerns.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Yeah. Well, the only actual tool and the only actual real leverage that Democrats have, that’s the filibuster, 100%. You know, and I just had an op-ed in the Washington Post and I was trying to remind America and Democrats specifically, that we, including me, we were so wrong about scrapping the filibuster back in the 2022 cycle.

Now, we all ran on that and we all were committed to eliminate the filibuster. And if we were successful, we may have passed some things back in ’22, but 100% in January of 2025, they would have been able to run the table, 100% run the table. And if anyone that’s listening have been horrified or troubled by a lot of the legislation being proposed, that would have been amateur hour compared to how they would have been able to remake our society because they would have had the trifecta. Trump was at the apex of his power, and they could have passed and done everything. And if the Senate was working on basic majority like the House, we would have rendered ourselves as essentially a smaller version of the House, and they would have been able to remake our society.


**JON STEWART:** Wouldn’t you say they have remade our society, you know, by using gimmicks like reconciliation, by using executive power in ways that hadn’t been used before? Haven’t they done that already?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Yeah. Well, a lot of those executive orders were just overturned or stopped by the courts. And now I know I kind of got whacked when I said, well, what is a real constitutional crisis? That’s when the president is going to defy court orders. And because it doesn’t describe the solution in the Constitution, that’s a crisis. And as far as I know, the president hasn’t defied a single court order. Now, a lot of noise, but he hasn’t defied any specific ones. And that’s the way the system’s supposed to work.


**JON STEWART:** Well, he has— I mean, he’s defied court orders and congressional law. I mean, just even in the TikTok case, you know, you guys voted that that had to be divested and he just ignored that. He just didn’t do it. And then he handed a pretty powerful social media tool to his friends, the Ellisons and other people. I guess that’s my point is I understand you’re saying there are certain norms or things that you don’t want Democrats to do. But given the legitimate concerns that people have about executive overreach, you know, these types of—


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Absolutely, that’s a real thing.


**JON STEWART:** But of course, yeah.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** But I’d like to revisit this idea, the filibuster, the Democratic Party— and I am part of it, and I was definitely part of that— to eliminating the filibuster, how dangerous that was if we were successful. And they would have been able to pass every single wish list on the Republican playbook. And now we would have been a whim of the political extremism and they’d be able to pass everything. The only thing that we’ve ever stopped— Save America Act.


**JON STEWART:** Yeah, that’s the only thing the filibuster has actually done. Yeah. In fact, you’ve played kind of a role in, you know, getting their nominees going. You’ve been kind of the contradictory vote from the Democrats to get him some pretty controversial appointees. I’m just curious because the filibuster seems like it hasn’t really stopped them from getting the people that they want, getting unqualified people into the cabinet, into the Department of Justice. Yeah.

## Balancing Immigration Policy and Democratic Strategy
**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** I mean, and many of them I didn’t vote for. And if you’re going to bring up Blanche, I’m not going to vote for him as well too. There’s some that I would vote for, and then there’s many that I haven’t because it’s just I don’t believe that’s the kind of right person for the job overall. I really try to call balls and strikes.

I do think, like, for example, Mayorkas, he did a terrible job. He was — it never should be impeached. He didn’t break the law. Incompetence is not grounds for impeachment. But overall, trying to describe an honest assessment — as a Democrat from Pennsylvania, that’s been my role. And if you look at my voting record, I haven’t changed these core things like pro-choice. I don’t pick on, turn our back on the gay or trans community in America. And very, very pro-immigration, very, very pro-union. All of those kind of boilerplate kinds of Democratic issues. That hasn’t changed. So that’s where we’re at.

And now you talk about ICE. Absolutely. I called for Noem, she has to go. And now we brought in a new leader. Now, I’ve said this — deport all of the criminals, 100%, deport all of them. I hope we could all agree on those things. We need to secure our border. We do need to secure our border. And then I’ve said, do not target otherwise hardworking migrants that are a very important part of our economy, specifically like in my state in agriculture too, or tourism, or these other kinds of positions too, trying to find the right balance of secure a border, deport all the criminals, but stop targeting otherwise innocent kinds of migrants here, including my family. My wife was a former Dreamer. Yeah.


**JON STEWART:** Right. But that’s my point. They are targeting those people and there have been killings, and even Homan has admitted that the training on the killing in — I can’t remember if it was Maine or if it was the one in Minnesota — there’s quite a few of them. So I guess my question to you is, you’re agreeing with the majority, I think, of Democrats on that, but not agreeing — yeah, they’re very clear, vocal — but not agreeing with their method.

How do Democrats influence that if the Trump administration is running roughshod over what you just said? They’re not just doing the criminals. They’ve deported citizens or they’ve jailed citizens. They’ve taken immigration, which was generally a civil concern, and made it a criminal concern. They want to build giant warehouses where they just bring people that are there on civil violations or what used to be civil violations. So if they can’t use things like a threat of a shutdown, where would you suggest they use their lack of power?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Well, I work with the new Secretary Mullin and now all of those warehouses in Pennsylvania were canceled. I mean, that’s a fact. And shut the government down on that — there wasn’t one single ICE reform or anything. You can want reforms and you can engage in those dialogues, but shutting the government down when that has zero impact on the way Homeland Security is going to operate — because they were funded through the big beautiful bill, the thing that I did not vote for as well too — they had unlimited money.

So for me, it was a decision. Should I just vote to shut our government down, even though every single Democrat in my caucus knew that it would have no direct or even indirect leverage over ICE to behave the way that we all want them to do? That’s a demand from an agitated, angry base. And I’m willing to say, look, that’s the wrong thing. That’s the wrong solution for a reasonable conversation to have with people saying we want to make those kind of changes for ICE.


**JON STEWART:** So what is the way to make those changes? Because my understanding of the shutdown was they were saying we will shut it down unless you make those changes, not that somehow those changes would be made because it wasn’t funded. I understand that that’s what you’re saying, but that was the threat.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Yeah. And there was no forcing of any kinds of things. The Democratic caucus walked away with empty pockets about shutting our government down, on both sides. So it’s reasonable kinds of concerns, but it’s the wrong tool or the solution in order to achieve it. Win elections, win elections — and then that puts you in the better position to make those kind of changes.

## The Democratic Party’s Direction and the 2024 Election


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** And now you have my party returning back to the worst impulses. Abolish ICE, abolish the border, and saying these kinds of extreme things.


**JON STEWART:** You’re saying the Democratic Party is returning to “abolish ICE” and “abolish borders”?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** I mean, a lot of the people that are winning — when we’re filming this, in Michigan, the person that’s going to win is calling to abolish ICE. And then in the governor race in Wisconsin, she in fact even said “abolish prisons” as well too.


**JON STEWART:** But she said that she had said that previously, and she’s walked that back, in the same way that a lot of people in the heat of the George Floyd moment said “defund the police” and then ultimately said, you know what, that was an emotional response and I think that was the wrong policy. But aren’t you elevating what seems to be — I mean, how many people have, like, 3 DSA or 5? It seems like the Democratic Party is largely still just the Democratic Party. And there are some people that associate with either the DSA or social democracies that are gaining a foothold. But I don’t imagine — what are we talking about, 3 or 4?
**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Well, it’s actually many more. There’s one in Colorado, there’s many in New York. And I just seen the recent poll — over a third of Democrats identify themselves as socialists or have sympathy for it. So it is a significant issue.

We got wrecked in ’24 because a lot of the extreme things that we were saying in 2020 came back to haunt us. And that’s why we found ourselves here in the minority. And I’m saying, hey, we can’t go back to the same extreme views because we have to win actual battleground states. It’s not echo chambers in Brooklyn or now. And here you see the people with these extreme views are breaking through in Michigan and in Wisconsin and places like Colorado. So I’m saying let’s resist these extreme kinds of views to abolish everything. And now the DSA is an emerging factor here. I’m not elevating them, I’m just describing what I’m witnessing that’s coming as a regular Democrat. And that’s the reality. I expect Al-Sayed will win by double digits.

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**JON STEWART:** So let me see if I can frame this in a slightly different way. Why do you think it is that there is a kind of momentum behind these more — as you would call them — extremists, or I would say they’re a mix, there’s a certain nuance to it. But don’t you think that that’s happening for a reason? In other words, the same sort of impulses and energies that drove Donald Trump’s rise — economic populism, a dissatisfaction with the status quo — on the Democratic side, couldn’t you say that this is happening because establishment Democrats, the party that you are talking about that you think is the more reasonable party, hasn’t delivered for people in the way that they think is appropriate?

These moments don’t happen out of thin air. These are conditions on the ground where people are dissatisfied with the status quo, and you have candidates that come up and they present economic proposals and other proposals that feel more urgent to the moment. In other words, why are you blaming them when in some ways you could be blaming yourself and your colleagues?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** I’m not blaming, I’m describing where we’re at and what’s happening now too. And when we have people winning elections saying absurd kinds of positions that were absolutely toxic back in 2020, I’m saying stop saying these kind of extreme things — they are not workable in the real world overall. And don’t we want to win? Do we want to be the people leading the conversation instead of having another kind of subordinate position like we are currently in and have been since January of 2025?


**JON STEWART:** So you think you lost in 2024 because of the extremism of Kamala Harris and Tim Walz?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Yeah, absolutely.


**JON STEWART:** Or the Joe Biden administration?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Yeah. I mean, El-Sayed, for example, he was a big leader in the Uncommitted movement — saying don’t vote Democrat, don’t vote for these people. And now, some things that I’ve never done — I drove thousands and thousands of miles all across Pennsylvania to try to elect Vice President Harris, and I’ve done that. But on the ground, it’s very clear we’re going down because the energy and a lot of the way that they’ve been positioned as people that are not in touch with people — we’ve lost the argument. And at no point did I have a strong feeling that we can win this. And anyone who spent time in Pennsylvania during that election, we all understood we have a serious challenge.


**JON STEWART:** But don’t you think this new sort of energy and economic populism is a response to that?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Well, what is that? Is that socialism? And more, it’s communism. That’s not an economic model that has never worked in the history.


**JON STEWART:** But aren’t you just — that sounds like a caricature. El-Sayed is running on — he wants to ban corporate money, wants to tax — I guess higher taxes on billionaires for housing and education, Medicare for All. When you say that’s communism, that feels like a caricature.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** No, no, I never said that. I call real communists that are cheering for communism — people like Hasan Piker, for example. He’s a big influence on the Democratic Party conversation. And he is a communist. He celebrates Mao and describes — and is going to be proud to visit Cuba and stand with people on those sides. That’s not a smear. That’s just using the kinds of words and the positions that he has made part of his platform.


**JON STEWART:** So you’re saying he says, “I’m a communist and I want America to be communist”?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** No, I’m saying that he has the kinds of views. Now, you were very, very instrumental in delivering aid for victims of 9/11. You’ve been here and you’ve been very effective for doing that. Now, for an individual that says that America, “we deserved that” — hey, I’m deeply offended by that and I don’t support that. And I’m certainly not going to campaign with him or explain that way.


**JON STEWART:** Well, Bill Maher said that the 9/11 terrorists weren’t cowards. And you went on his podcast and you talked to him all the time. So I guess what I’m saying is, aren’t you cherry picking certain things and maybe losing the forest for the trees?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Two things are not the same. Making a statement compared to saying that “we deserved that,” as opposed to describing it in different terms. That’s just not the same.


**JON STEWART:** But he’s not running.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** And Bill Maher is not a communist too. Bill Maher does not describe Hamas as “1,000% better than Israel.”

## Capitalism, AI, and the Future of the Democratic Party


**JON STEWART:** So for you, it literally is they’ve made statements in the past or their economic policies are more sympathetic to socialism. So let me shift it a bit. You want capitalism to survive.
**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Yes, absolutely. I’m absolutely proud, a proud American capitalist. And I do think I’m much more concerned about our country losing to China in the AI race. And now for me, another unpopular view that I might have as a Democrat: data centers. Data centers. If we ban them or we have a long-term moratorium, China would be elated, elated on that.

And you have frontier models like Mythos and now the new AI version one, they’ve been able to break out and to hack and go attack other kinds of organizations. Thank God that they’re American companies. The second the Chinese are able to have those frontier models and unleash them on there— so now that’s going to make these small potatoes in terms of the kind of economic damage that an AI model with those kind of capabilities like Mythos in the Chinese hands, or say another one— that’s what I’m really concerned about, for me.


**JON STEWART:** But that, I mean, that’s a case for stronger regulation, which we aren’t doing because the AI companies—


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Well, we should have regulation, right?


**JON STEWART:** But we’re not doing it because the AI companies are paying millions and millions of dollars into our government. But I want to get back to sort of what we’re talking about. You’re saying you are a capitalist. So I just want to reframe the argument a little bit because Piker, I don’t think is a communist. I think he said he’s socialist.

But the point being, do you think capitalism— isn’t one of the reasons there’s so much energy on the left now for this type of populist rhetoric is that many people believe that capitalism as we are practicing it, meaning a lot of corruption, crony capitalism, a lot of the playing field is tilted towards capital investment and away from labor, that capitalism as it is being practiced in America is increasing inequality and leaving too many people behind, and that this energy is not there necessarily to destroy it, but to reform it in a way that will rebalance the scale. I guess what I’m asking is, don’t you think this is coming from the lived experience of people under the way capitalism is being practiced in America in this moment?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** I think I return it back to this idea that AI is transforming the world 100%, whether you have to like it or not. It’s like if someone is going to win, and for me, I want America to win that because we are the good guy in this. And now the second we hinder our own ability to develop these kind of tools, the Chinese will seize the lead and then they would weaponize that in ways and the kinds of damage they could inflict are untold trillions. And that’s my real concern about that overall.


**JON STEWART:** No, I think I’m understanding sort of your position on AI. I’m talking about the broader conversation on— you are being very critical of those on the left.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** No, no, I’m not being critical. I’m just describing. And I’m saying, if anything, the left is very critical about— as a Democrat, for me, because I have very strong views on Israel, and I think it’s a wrong thing to shut our government down.


**JON STEWART:** Understood. But I’m talking about the broader— you’re saying you don’t like these people because they’re socialists and communists. You’re a capitalist.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Not a personal thing. It’s not a personal thing.


**JON STEWART:** Well, you’ve called them the dirtbag left, which is somewhat personal.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** The dirtbag left. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that is a term. That is a term. Absolutely.


**JON STEWART:** I mean, it’s somewhat derogatory, but I guess I’m trying to get to the point saying, do you think the way capitalism is working in this country is working the way that it should? And don’t you think that your voters— and you described yourself as a progressive years ago, you don’t do it anymore— but don’t you think your voters are feeling the effects of a system that benefits capital and disadvantages labor?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** I mean, for me, this idea in terms of what is a progressive right now. But increasingly, the defining issue within the Democratic Party is Israel and the Gaza War overall, that has become like the defining issue right now in a lot of these elections, overall. And that’s just my take more than anything else. My proud standing with Israel through everything after 10/7 has put me at odds more than anything individual than anything else.

## The New Deal, the Dirtbag Left, and Saving Capitalism


**JON STEWART:** So here’s what I’m trying to get at is that you are saying the argument is between capitalism the way it is, you get what you get and you don’t get upset, or socialism and communism. And I’m saying the greatest threat to capitalism is that it’s not delivering for the majority of people because the system is rigged for those who have capital and investment money. There’s a million different ways that they do it. Lower tax rates on capital than labor, untaxed or barely taxed unrealized gains, corporate tax cuts, corporate loopholes, offshoring-friendly rules. There’s a million different things.

So let’s go back to the ’30s. In the ’20s and ’30s, Norman Thomas was the socialist candidate for president. Eugene Debs was a candidate for president. These were socialists. They were people that felt like it was the Gilded Age inequality. It wasn’t working for people. The Depression hit. The New Deal basically incorporated a lot of those socialist ideas for a social safety net, for better laws for labor. Unions benefited greatly from that. Those reforms, and a lot of that energy came from what you would call the dirtbag left at that time, I would say saved capitalism and saved America from having more of a socialist or communist type revolution.

And don’t you think we would be better off using the energy from the left for ideas like banning corporate money and strengthening labor unions, all stuff that I imagine you support, rather than denigrating them and caricaturing them? Why not work with them so that the capitalist system you love—


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** What does that mean by working with them? And now I don’t necessarily agree with everything of your argument.


**JON STEWART:** Sure, sure.
**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** It’s like the Great Depression— we’re not in the Great Depression, and the economy continues to grow overall, without a doubt. And then some things are too expensive. Without a doubt they are. But eventually I think the market will address that. Back in ’24, the whole world was eggs, eggs, eggs, eggs, eggs, out of control. And now when it returned back to a normal price, people don’t talk about eggs anymore. So it’s a lot of these other things, overall.

And then World War II, that reminds the world that we saved democracy in our country and we are the good guys. And there are people on the far left now, they’re making it seem that America is the problem, or we are the aggressor, or we are behind many of the troubles here across the globe.


**JON STEWART:** In other words, if El-Sayed or AOC or Bernie Sanders has proposals that strengthen a social safety net or readjust corporate tax rates or change the way that— or here’s just a simple one, tax capital gains in the same way you would tax salaries. Like work is for suckers. Work is taxed at a higher level than investments. Doesn’t that tilt the playing field to people who already have money? And if the progressive left is saying these are the types of things that we need to do, wouldn’t that appeal to you?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Well, what appeals to me is eliminating unlimited money in politics, without a doubt.


**JON STEWART:** And that’s a position that they hold.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Well, it’s not they— they don’t own that. It’s like I’ve been saying that. I mean, any reasonable person realized that unlimited money is a poison in American democracy. I’ve been saying that from the beginning. It’s not something that they own.

Now my race, my race was $320 million in my race in ’22. And then in the ’24 cycle was half a billion dollars for a Senate race. And now watch how out of control that race is going to get here in ’26. And then in ’28, it’s going to make my race look quaint in terms of the billions of dollars that are being thrown at that. That more than anything is the accelerant, and it’s fueling a lot of the extremism now too.


**JON STEWART:** Right.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** And also another problem is the primary system too. The extreme views are the most activated and they are the most part of the primary. And then that pushes people away from reasonable kinds of solutions for things, whether on both sides, left or right too. And I reject both the extremes on either side.

## The “Pro-Hamas” Label and Caricaturing the Left


**JON STEWART:** But it seems like you are more comfortable angrily denigrating the extreme, or what you consider the extreme on the left than the right. Like in the way that you talk to El-Sayed, why call them pro-Hamas if they just want to criticize?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Because he’s— I said that because he’s campaigning with people that are absolutely pro-Hamas.


**JON STEWART:** Well, who— you mean Hasan Piker, you say is pro-Hamas? And so you’re basing this just on that?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** He said he is. If you campaign and are proud to align yourself with very pro-Hamas people, it’s reasonable to conclude, yeah, I have a pro view for Hamas.


**JON STEWART:** But I guess what I’m saying is I feel like you’re caricaturing people’s views if they’re critical of Israel. If someone says, “I think Hamas and Israel are both killing people for terrible reasons,” that’s— how is that pro-Hamas?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** No, what I’m saying, it’s like people that just say Hamas is 1,000% them are democratic— our ally Israel, then yeah, that’s pro-Hamas.


**JON STEWART:** But saying they’re less evil than Israel if they think Israel is evil is not the same as pro. I’ll give you an example.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** No, like Piker said a lot of incredibly very pro-Hamas kind of things. It’s like if you support Hamas and campaign with people that support Hamas, then that identifies someone as pro-Hamas.

## Policing the Party: Israel, Identity, and Democratic Divisions


**JON STEWART:** I guess what I’m saying is I have not seen statements where these candidates say, I am pro-Hamas. What I have seen is statements where they are very critical of Israel, the Israeli government, and the way that they have conducted themselves in Gaza. And by the way, they’re not alone. The ICC and the UN and Human Rights Watch have all been unbelievably critical.

And I guess I’m having trouble figuring out why I feel like you’re caricaturing it. Let me go at this a different way. You’re pro-gay rights.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Yes. Yeah. I mean, I’m coming up on the 13th. I’m on the pro-13th anniversary. I was the first person to solemnize a gay marriage, when it was illegal in Pennsylvania. Yeah, beautiful.


**JON STEWART:** And you’re someone who is pro-trans rights, or—


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** I absolutely— I was the only Democrat that’s saying, when they actively were trying to ban trans Americans from our military.


**JON STEWART:** Great. So what the right would say about that is that you’re pro-mutilation of children. That’s what they would say. That would be their caricature of your position. Do you agree that that’s what they would say?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** What I would say is, what I’m saying is right now our party is starting to elect people that are going to struggle to win in the kinds of places that are going to define who’s going to win in ’28. That’s a fact. And now a lot of these ideas and a lot of these extreme views are coming from the kind of people that have never won a real competitive election in a state that holds both sides, and hold people accountable to explain a way forward when we live in a very divided country right now.

I think the responsibility is to police your own ranks. And it’s like, there’s plenty of people as I’ve been criticizing, some of the Republican views, but overall describing what garbage is garbage. Like P. Hustle in Maine, like he was an absolute garbage.


**JON STEWART:** Oh, Platner.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Platner. Yeah. I mean, so that’s not a caricature.


**JON STEWART:** And you were saying that before the allegations of rape.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** What I’m saying, it’s like a Nazi tattoo on your chest means, yeah, you probably have Nazi inclinations. And if you are accused of roughing up your ex-girlfriends, yeah, that’s a non-starter for me. And if you think an American hero that’s being shot by the Taliban is a dumb motherf\\*er that deserves to die, I think that’s disqualifying too. I think Maine has a better person to represent my party.


**JON STEWART:** So there’s just a couple things there, and I appreciate you having the conversation.
**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** I do too. You’ve been very fair here. Absolutely.

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## The Pro-Hamas Label and the Israel Red Line


**JON STEWART:** If your concern is winning elections, I don’t know if you coming out and calling people pro-Hamas, which I think is a caricature of many of their positions, is that helpful to them? And second of all, you called President Trump a jagoff in 2016.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Yeah, absolutely. I put it on a shirt. I sold them.


**JON STEWART:** You put it on a shirt and now you’ve been very complimentary to him. And if your concern with Graham Plattner is you didn’t think he was very nice to women, you’re ignoring an awful lot of evidence for the current president about his relationship with women.

So my point is, there seems like there’s a way to go about this that embraces, as you said, the 90% of things that you agree with. And try and utilize that energy to reform a party that has a worse public image than herpes in terms of getting things done. This feels like it’s playing into the hands of Republican caricatures.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Why can’t people on the Democratic side finally figure out why Trump was so competitive and winning 2 out of the 3 last cycles? Why is he still here? Why are we still doing it? Because we keep losing, and now we keep returning back to some of the extreme things. That’s not a caricature. That is a fair assessment of where we are with these kind of things.


**JON STEWART:** But Kamala Harris was not a progressive left candidate. She was not— I guess everybody said Donald Trump couldn’t win.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Yeah. I campaigned all across it, and now all those signature kinds of Trump things — the big, beautiful bill — I did not vote for that. And the SAVE Act, I said I will not vote for that. And some of these big signature ones. And when we vote for Blanche this week when we’re filmed, I won’t vote for him either.


**JON STEWART:** Right.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** So what really matters is the votes and what’s behind that. And what’s really set me apart from most of the Democratic Party is Israel. And that’s fair. Criticize John Fetterman on Israel without a doubt, 100%. So that’s been primarily what’s been driving our party.


**JON STEWART:** So for you, you could agree with them 90%, but Israel is the red line.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Absolutely. Israel for me — I can’t ever turn my back to Israel after where it’s at.


**JON STEWART:** And I mean no disrespect on this, but that is not our country. You’re saying that these candidates may have great ideas for our economy. They may want to do the exact same thing you want to do in terms of getting money out of politics. They may want to increase the social safety net. They may want to change the balance of power from capital back to labor. But if they don’t agree with you on Israel, you don’t want them in your party.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Well, I don’t know who you’re referencing specifically.


**JON STEWART:** No, I’m referencing what you just said.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Name one.


**JON STEWART:** So in other words, Syed or AOC or Bernie Sanders — I assume you agree with a lot of what they say economically.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** And what I’m saying is, if you are a DSA member, if you are a member of a specific political party, run under your own banner. And I think Bill Maher said something very insightful. He said the DSA are colonizing the Democratic Party. So just be Democrats if you’re going to run under the Democratic Party. Why have a DSA party overall? Run on that.

## The DSA Question and Democratic Identity


**JON STEWART:** You all understand it’s just an organization. It’s not— we have a two-party system. It’s like the Freedom Caucus in the Republican Party. There are Randy Fine and Ogles and all these nutbags that are also part of an area. And Republicans, I’m sure, may not agree with all of them on all kinds of things. But there is no other party.

I guess you could try it, but my point is, if you don’t disagree with them on a lot of things, why not use some of that energy? And even Mamdani in New York is DSA, but there are things in the DSA platform that he disagrees with. And I’m assuming there’s probably things in the Democratic platform that you might disagree with, but you don’t disavow the entire thing.

You are literally saying we can all have discussions except when it comes to Israel, which is not America. It seems like a weird line to draw.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Well, I don’t think that’s weird. I think what history demonstrates is that when people or a government turn their back to the Jewish community, things end really badly. And it’s a dangerous—


**JON STEWART:** Jewish community and Israel are not the same thing, brother man. That is not the same thing.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** No, no, no. It’s like, hey, if I have to pick a side after 10/7 and after Iran, I’m always going to stand with Israel. I’m always going to vote and support whatever’s necessary to protect themselves and to prosecute Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran too. And the very left never said a peep after Iran executed 30,000 to 40,000 young people just for protesting for democracy.


**JON STEWART:** You think that the left is pro-Iran? Pro— not the country, but the regime?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** What I’m saying is, if anyone in the Democratic Party is fine with Iran building a nuclear bomb, I disagree with that person.

## Criticizing Israel and the Limits of Unconditional Support


**JON STEWART:** I think most people are— again, I think you’re caricaturing the issue. But I want to— is there anything you would criticize Israel about?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** No. What I would say is, I have not met a single Democrat that’s willing to go on record saying, I’m cool, it’s okay if Iran builds a nuclear bomb. And I supported last summer bombing the Iranian nuclear facilities. I think that was a necessary and important thing because Iran is becoming close to building a nuclear bomb and that would—


**JON STEWART:** I think the case was not made by this administration that Iran was close. Netanyahu’s been claiming they’re 2 weeks away for the last 20 years. But my point is, so would you say everything Israel is doing is for their own self-defense?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Just destroying its enemies? Yeah, that is destroying its enemies.


**JON STEWART:** Or flattening a tiny area and pushing 2 million people into 30 to 35 to 40% of that territory and having a siege of that area? Is that in their self-defense?
**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** No. What I’m saying is, people forget that Hamas were just rapists and they were terrorizing and killing civilians. And then they stole — no, how many? — 250 people from their families and they kept them underground and brutalized them and raped them and starved them for over 2 years. And that’s why they refused to give them back. And that’s what forced Israel to engage in that Gaza war when they refused to send their people.


**JON STEWART:** And there is nothing in the prosecution of that war that gives you pause?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** What do you mean?


**JON STEWART:** The killing of tens of thousands of children. The—


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Absolutely awful. Absolutely. Because Hamas has embedded themselves behind these people and using the Palestinians as human shields. Sinwar described the death of innocent Palestinians as a necessary sacrifice. That’s how Hamas has designed that.


**JON STEWART:** There are people in Netanyahu’s cabinet who have said they would like to nuke the Palestinians — not Hamas, the Palestinians. I guess what I’m trying to get at is I don’t understand why we can’t criticize even someone that you think is an ally for actions that we deem to be morally reprehensible.

I don’t understand how you can defend the settlements in the West Bank. I don’t understand how you have no criticisms over their actions, over their increasingly messianic ultra-right-wing government that seems to think relentless war is the answer — like you can bomb people out of resistance.

Have you ever seen a movie called Gatekeepers? It’s people that have been in Shin Bet and ran the army in Israel, and they’re talking about how the strategy that Israel has of disproportionate retaliation, even though they are by far the most powerful force in that region, is not a path to keep Israel safe.

## The Israel-Palestine Debate


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** What I’m saying is that Israel was entirely open to a 2-state solution. They were offered a 2-state solution. I actually got a chance to talk to former President Clinton about that, and he reminds people that they were offered 96% of the West Bank and they get to pick 4% for part of Israel. And they had East Jerusalem as the capital and they would have had their entire nation. And now, going on 26 years now, they reject that. They did not want a two-state solution. They have a one-state solution, and that’s from the river to the sea.

And that’s part of why antisemitism has run amok in our college campuses and in the streets. And now there are protesters showing up in my office, at my home, and following me and screaming and calling about and claiming about genocide. And it’s not a genocide. And if there was a genocide, that’s because Iran refuses to relinquish this idea that they can destroy Israel. Now live in peace and live your lives and stop funneling billions into Hezbollah and Hamas trying to destroy Israel. That’s the honest dynamic in the region.

And there will be a democratic election in Israel in October. Will Netanyahu win or not overall? But that’s the true only democracy in the entire region. I’ve never said that Israel is perfect. What I’m saying, though, is that’s our special ally. And until we’re admittedly at war, I’m going to stand with our special ally and describe the circumstances with Hamas or Hezbollah or the way Iran continues to behave.


**JON STEWART:** No one’s saying it’s not a dangerous neighborhood, but I think the behavior of that government is worth more scrutiny than — and as not just a special neighbor and ally, we’re the ones who fund a great deal of it. Israel has made it, in the way that they’ve sort of indirectly funded Hamas, very difficult for moderates. I mean, we’re getting into a whole thing here, but I think you believe Netanyahu and his government are operating in good faith. That they really want a peace deal, and I’m saying they’re not.

Netanyahu’s been very clear that he doesn’t want a 2-state solution. He said it. He said it’s not going to happen. There will be no 2-state solution. And yet they say that they are a democratic state, but demographics there would say they can’t be a true democracy because they’d be worried about that diluting what they consider to be their Jewish state. Now, that’s a whole other argument of whether states should be this or that.

But the point being that when we went to war in Iraq or we went to war in Afghanistan, I criticized America for the way that they were prosecuting that war and the cavalier way in which we were wasting American treasure and American lives. That doesn’t make me pro-Al-Qaeda, in the same way that if you criticize Israel for devastating an enormous group of people because of Hamas — not Palestinians. Hamas. They are not the same. Jews are not the same as Israel.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** They are the government that the Palestinian people have elected.


**JON STEWART:** They elected them in, what is it, 2008? And there hasn’t been an election since. And it was a desperate people in a siege situation.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Yeah, because they elected a murderous system.

## Settlements, Settlers, and the Question of Genocide


**JON STEWART:** Sharon pulled out the settlements from Gaza, and then you had a double-blind study. Was Israel going to help the moderates or was it going to empower the extremists? And Israel’s actions during that time empowered the extremists and undercut the moderates. And they’ve done that over and over and over again.

Look, you can say that the Palestinians are trying to kill the Jews, right? But let’s say it’s Hamas or Hezbollah or whatever it is, or Iran. Jewish settlers are killing Palestinians. And when they asked Netanyahu about it, he said, well, it’s just like 100 to 150 juvenile delinquents and we can’t quite get a handle on it. Meaning Israel wasn’t able to control this small element that was killing people. Does that mean that the international community should say, you don’t deserve a state because you don’t have total control of the violent elements in your midst? But that’s what they’re saying. Why does Israel get to decide?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Well, the defining question is, does Israel engage in a genocide in Palestine?


**JON STEWART:** Well, according to the people that define those things, yes.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** I strongly disagree with that by definition. That wasn’t a genocide. The Jewish community actually experienced a true genocide. Now, if Israel’s goal was to eliminate as many Palestinians as possible, they could have accomplished that a long time ago. They were not engaging in a genocide.


**JON STEWART:** Just because you’re killing a group slowly doesn’t mean you’re not killing a group. Just because you could do it faster doesn’t —
**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** No, no, no, no. That was the terrible collateral damage of an urban war that forced Israel to fight the way they did because Hamas was holding their hostages and refused to disarm and send their people back home.


**JON STEWART:** I think they’ve killed like 1,200 Palestinians since the ceasefire.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Most of them were killing Hamas leadership. And I think that’s necessary. When you have people that were responsible for organizing 10/7, I think it’s entirely appropriate to eliminate them.


**JON STEWART:** I think eliminating the people who organized 10/7 is entirely appropriate. That is absolutely correct. But in the same way that if we had gone into Afghanistan and just flattened it, the American people would have been outraged. That we had no discernment, that we couldn’t tell the difference.

The issue here is dehumanization, whether you’re dehumanizing Jews and relating them to Israel. When you dehumanize a group, when you’re unable to discern the difference between the worst of the worst — the same way we’re doing with our immigration policy — it all ties together through Middle East policy. If we allow dehumanization in any form, then we are complicit in the results of those dehumanizing actions. And by being unable to tell the difference between a democratic socialist and a social democrat, and a Hamas supporter and a communist, and a Zionist and a Jew, and Netanyahu an actor in good faith, we lose the ability to solve the problems that we’re facing because we are caricaturing and dehumanizing.

## The Word “Zionist” and the Democratic Party


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Jon, is it a fair question here? The term “Zionist” has become a slur on the Democratic side. If someone refers to you as a “Zio” or a “Zionist,” that’s become essentially a slur. And that’s part of where the party has lost its way. If you’re describing people that are very supportive of a Jewish state, they’ve weaponized that against people.


**JON STEWART:** I think if they believe that that Jewish state is acting in a manner that is overly violent and dehumanizing and constantly at war in a region, that’s where that’s coming from.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** If Hamas refuses to disarm and they refuse to send their people back home, then they’ve made themselves viable targets. And I support Israel eliminating people that were part of planning 10/7.


**JON STEWART:** I think most people support eliminating those who supported 10/7, but will Israel disarm the settlers? They’ve given them weapons, and those weapons are being used to kill.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** There are moving parts. But what makes it impossible right now is because Hamas and Iran and Hezbollah refuse to say, look, we’ve lost, and now we have to find a better way to rebuild our society. And I’d remind people that Iran eliminated and just killed in their streets tens of thousands of its own young people.


**JON STEWART:** Yes, awful.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** They’re hanging teenagers for just asking for democracy. I don’t see the kind of college protest outrage about what Iran has done and continues to —


**JON STEWART:** Because they don’t consider Iran an ally. They don’t give money to Iran. We don’t give billions of dollars a year to Iran. We sanction them. We try to do various things to remove — we try and scorn them. We try and create the situation to undermine that regime.

But what we haven’t learned is that 40 and 50 years of endless wars don’t get us the peaceful results that we are searching for. They don’t — the whole point of all of this is to build coalitions of nations of good faith. To try and create a safer and less violent world and not just play into it with bigger weapons and more weapons. Because we see what happens. All the bombing that we’ve done in Iran, and they’ve got some lawnmower parks and a couple of Radio Shack things, and they continue to keep the Strait of Hormuz closed.

When are we going to learn that violence — or in Stephen Miller’s thing, might makes right — when are we going to learn that’s not necessarily the case? That the whole point for us should be to create a society and institutions that move us away from that violence.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Because we already discovered a quarter century ago that peace and negotiating a very incredibly insanely fair settlement — they rejected that. They don’t want that. We’ve tried other things. And if Hamas and Iran had not done what happened on 10/7, we wouldn’t be having this conversation right now.

## Peace, Criticism, and Moral Foundation


**JON STEWART:** I don’t know that we wouldn’t be having this conversation right now because, at every turn, the answer has always been tighter control over areas that Palestinians live in, and more bombing, and more things. I don’t necessarily know that that’s the case. And all the Arab states in 2002 offered Israel to normalize relations for the granting of a Palestinian state, and Israel rejected it. And Rabin, who was trying to make peace in that area with the Palestinians, was assassinated not by Hamas, but by an Israeli extremist. So the idea that they are somehow blameless or have done nothing wrong — I don’t understand why we can’t criticize them.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** I am not ever going to think they have a valid point if they’re killing and firing rockets at civilians, and now they’re raping them, and they’re filming and setting families on fire. And they abuse their own Palestinians too. And all of our accusations have been proven about starving people. And now the UN just acknowledged that Hamas has been stealing all of the aid, and they keep the prime stuff, and they resell it to the poor Palestinians as well.

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**JON STEWART:** Even senior military officials had told the New York Times in July of 2025 that there was no evidence that Hamas systematically stole UN aid. But that’s not the point.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Well, in July of ’26, there was evidence there. They were right. It’s actually proved.


**JON STEWART:** I think if we don’t have the ability to criticize a so-called ally for egregious and violent behaviors, then we are not an ally and we shouldn’t be, because we should have the ability to stand up morally in situations that we need to, even for people that we believe to be on our “quote unquote” side. And our inability to do that is a real detriment to our own moral foundation.
**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** I’m very much aware what the Democratic base would demand of me and to have these specific kind of beliefs and views and take the kind of votes. And I refused to do that, knowing exactly that that would put me in political peril. And I don’t have any regret about those things.

But overall for me, when you have this existential kind of a war after 10/7 and how things continue under those terms — what side? Hamas? Israel? Israel. That’s an easy choice. Hezbollah firing tens of thousands of rockets at civilians in Israel — I’m absolutely going to support Israel. Iran, same thing.


**JON STEWART:** What about Team Humanity?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Oh yeah. I mean, I’ve —


**JON STEWART:** Where it’s not actually that choice. It’s about why are we willing to sacrifice so many young people that have nothing to do with any of this in that region? For this idea that it’s merely Hamas versus Israel. That’s just an oversimplification, I think, of what’s happening there.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** And what’s becoming clear is this entire conversation.


**JON STEWART:** Yeah, you’re right.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** You’re right.


**JON STEWART:** You’re right.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** This has been a very fair conversation.


**JON STEWART:** No, no, no, no, no. I appreciate it.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** And it’s like, this has become the ultimate litmus test for Democrats emerging right now. And I’m not dumb. I know voting against the war powers thing is incredibly toxic as a Democrat right now, but I do think it’s fundamentally important to make sure that Iran is not able to build a nuclear bomb. So that’s just where I’m at. We have different views, and that’s defining the Democratic Party.

## Wrapping Up the Interview


**JON STEWART:** In some ways, I think we have the same views, but with different strategies. I guess what I would say is, I’m not down with the nuclear bomb, and I’m not down with Hamas, and I’m not down with a murderous Israeli regime that dehumanizes a huge group of people either. I’m not down with a world that has lost the ability to solve its problems through collective action and diplomacy. That’s the biggest problem. And our government is complicit in that as well now. You know, that dysfunction.

How do we get back to that, Senator? How do we get back to a functional— like even the immigration system, Lankford comes up with a solution that both parties sign off on. And Donald Trump comes in before the election and says, tank it because I want to run on the dysfunction of the immigration system.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Yeah. And I knew, I knew we would get rolled on that. I’m like, there’s no chance Trump is going to hand over one of their largest kinds of issues. Like I fully expected we were going to get rolled over the bipartisan deal on immigration now. Right. So that’s what happened.


**JON STEWART:** So in your mind, is it possible to get back to that, or are we now just in a dysfunctional cycle? And are you more worried about the progressive left than you are about the right?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** I’m worried about people forgetting that it’s like, how do we win elections? It’s like, you know, have the kind of views that the majority of people that are going to define who’s going to be the next wave of leadership, you know, you have to win these people over and not offend them or to put them off the way that’s already happened and have made the Trump administration so competitive over the last 3 cycles, winning 2 out of the 3 and could have easily won the one in the middle now too.

Now, there was no voter fraud in Pennsylvania. As the lieutenant governor, I’ve described that secure, absolutely fair, fair, fair. If you only complain about an election if you lose, then obviously that’s demonstrating that that’s what’s behind those things. So that’s where we’re at. And these extreme views that have never won, have never won a meaningful election. Overall, I’m saying let’s consider, like, let’s not revisit that after we’ve seen how badly that’s ended.


**JON STEWART:** Any possibility they’re running to the left in the primary and will tack a little bit to the center in the regular election?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Well, I mean, who knows how that’s going to be under these extreme things? You know, Trump administration has made virtually anything politically possible. And that’s why you have some of these people in our party winning that have described things in extreme views that it’s made— it’s okay, or they dismiss it or say that it doesn’t really matter.

## Closing the Conversation


**JON STEWART:** Well, we certainly appreciate the conversation, Senator. You’ve been very generous with your time. You’ve been wearing— you’ve been wearing a suit, which I have to tell you gives you a little gravitas. As you were talking, I was like, you know, I wasn’t going to listen to this guy, but overall, John, you know, I’ve always been a long-term fan.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Like we discussed where when you made some guys famous because of the 6 degrees from Bacon.


**JON STEWART:** Kevin Bacon.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Yeah. That’s how long I’ve been with you back then.


**JON STEWART:** Did you go to college with those guys?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Yeah. Yeah. I went to college with those guys. Yeah. All right.


**JON STEWART:** The 6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon guys. Yeah.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Yeah. And they found out the genius that Kevin Bacon was connected to the entire universe overall. So that’s really just how long I’ve followed you. But thank you for having me on, and this was a very fair conversation.


**JON STEWART:** Well, that’s very kind of you, sir, and I appreciate your time, and I appreciate your passion. And enjoy, enjoy the rest of your day.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Okay, well, you as well.


**JON STEWART:** Thank you, sir.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Yeah, okay, take care.

## Post-Interview Debrief


**JON STEWART:** That was interesting. Yeah, I’m not really sure what to think here. He definitely feels very strongly about certain issues, one in particular. Yeah, yeah. I feel like we all just got out of one of those movies. Do you know those movies where it’s like sort of— it’s like there was like a weirdly traumatizing scene in the movie and now we’re all just like— So I’m going to take the C train. Do you want to go get something? I guess I’m just going to go get a slice and maybe go home.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Just sit in the quiet together.


**JON STEWART:** And yeah, but it— I’m weirdly thrown off right now. Yeah. I mean, what I will say in looking into him is like, he’s right.
**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** He does vote with Democrats over 90% of the time. And even though, you know, he doesn’t grant that same leniency to other people that vote with him— that would vote with Democrats 90% of the time— because he disagrees with them over Israel. Like, he is better.


**JON STEWART:** You know, I think about it in baseball terms.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Like, he has a high WAR.


**JON STEWART:** He’s better than Mehmet Oz in terms of wins above replacement. Holy s\\*, Jill. You have no idea how happy you’re making me right now. If you start going into advanced Senate analytics.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** He has a high WAR.


**JON STEWART:** You know, he’s better than a Republican in that position. And I think a lot of Republicans would say he has a high WAR and that he’s better than a Democrat in that position. But I think both parties would rather somebody more in line with their viewpoints in that position. And so the fact that he’s running again, I think, is totally delusional. Well, he’s going to have to pull either an independent. I don’t think Republicans— I mean, maybe he can win there as a Republican. I just don’t know how.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** No, I don’t think he can win there as a Republican. I don’t know.


**JON STEWART:** I don’t know what he would have to do to flip that around. He made a totally fair point that in terms of the signature legislation of this administration, he has not been on board with it. What he has done is made it a little bit—


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** He’s, you know, greased the wheels a bit on tough votes for them. He’s made it so they can peel off a couple people here and there. Susan Collins, guess what? You get to look good to Maine because John Fetterman has flipped sides.


**JON STEWART:** And that’s called politics.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** And if you’re not good at doing that, you shouldn’t be in politics.


**JON STEWART:** And the other thing that I think he didn’t acknowledge is that it’s one thing to vote with Democrats 90% of the time. It’s another thing to recognize people’s frustration with Democrats not delivering when they had power, when they’re out of power. Like, the reason why the energy is coming from the left is dissatisfaction with the— it’s not extremism. No. Kamala Harris didn’t lose because the country thought she was nuts and extreme. It’s that Democrats didn’t believe in her enough. Didn’t present a vision.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** She didn’t present a vision.


**JON STEWART:** She only had 107 days.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** What?


**JON STEWART:** I memorized the days. You guys brought it up last time, and I didn’t know that it was 107. And now this time I know.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Never going to forget it— tattooed on his arm.


**JON STEWART:** I’m never going to forget it ever again. Should we take a deep breath and do some questions? Yeah.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Should we take a shot and do some questions?


**JON STEWART:** Let’s all like— I do feel like, what the— All right. All right. What do we got, Brittany?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Okay, Jon.

## Audience Questions


**JON STEWART:** Did Senators Cornyn and Tillis just get bamboozled by Trump and Blanche, or will Trump and Blanche keep their word? Oh, I think they’ll keep their word. You know, there’s a saying in Washington. There is no more honorable a promise than a Trump promise. That’s why, you know, they don’t just build triumphal arches for everybody. Of course not. You have to earn the triumphal arch. You have to earn the drained reflecting pool.

No, I think that in many ways Tillis and Cornyn took a large knife to the lining of the Senate. To their own integrity as well. To their own integrity. I mean, even in the thing, like, it’s not just the weaponization fund, the $1.8 billion, which I’m sure he’ll reconstitute in some other— Hey, it’s $1.776 billion.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** All right.


**JON STEWART:** $1.776 billion. That’s a good point. And watch, we’re going to find out there’s a weird $1.776 billion gap in SNAP benefits to babies that don’t have formula. Like, he’ll find it somewhere. But the idea that they didn’t have the balls to be like, oh, and you’re not immune from the IRS.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Yeah.


**JON STEWART:** Like, you don’t just get to do whatever the f **_you want whenever the f_** you want to do it. Like, that was their principled stand. And they’ve got nothing to lose.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Nothing. They’ve already lost it all.


**JON STEWART:** You know what’s nice to know about that though? Sometimes you think, you know what? These guys are cowards. That they hold what they really believe for political expediency. They don’t ever say it. They don’t stand on principle because they’re fearful of losing their livelihood in the Senate. And it’s nice to know that for these guys, they’re actually just shitty.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Yes.


**JON STEWART:** That there is no moral principle that they’re standing on. That freed from the bounds of primaries and losing your job, they still suck.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Period. That’s the worst.


**JON STEWART:** Love it. What else we got?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Jon, do you think a third party created by Tucker Carlson and Marjorie Taylor Greene is the answer to the flaws of the two-party political system?


**JON STEWART:** You know, I don’t know. But, you know, obviously being one of the first people on their mailing list, I’m going to assume that I’ll find out. To get into the platinum subscriber circle that I had to do, and there’s just a few— my favorite thing was the picture of it. Like it’s a picture, but it’s taken from, like, I don’t know if there was an adjunct restaurant or like a different, like there was a little area over there by the Sunday bar and they were like, do you guys want to take a picture of this? Oh, and make sure no one can recognize us. Sure, I could do that. I can do that from way back. You want to make sure you get in the entirety of the restaurant. You want to get in all the decorations.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** I think it was Tucker’s house.

## Tucker Carlson, James Carville, and Signing Off


**JON STEWART:** Oh my God, you’re right. He lives in a Cracker Barrel. His basement, it looks like, it literally looks like an Applebee’s. So this is the new Tucker, by the way. This is not, you know, he was — yeah, the cabin in Maine Tucker.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Yeah.
**JON STEWART:** He was the old Tucker — “I’m Buckley. I’ve got the thing. I’m a young conservative with a sassy mouth and a contrarian streak.” And now he is like, “No, I’m actually the Marlboro Man. Honey, I’m going to head on out to the podcast mines, put in my 8 hours a day toiling with the microphones.”


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Get some dirt under his fingernails.


**JON STEWART:** Let me get that dirt under there. Let me rub a little bit on my forehead and take one of them pictures in that, what do you call it there? Sepia. Let me get the, let me put 5 zins in my pants. Is that \\[Zhulist\\] tobacco, or are you just happy to see me?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** America first, baby.


**JON STEWART:** All right, what else we got?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Last but not least, what is James Carville?


**JON STEWART:** That is — did you see Disclosure Day? Yeah. No. Now you know what he is.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Oh, that’s not fair to the alien at the end.


**JON STEWART:** When he stood up, listen, cut to black. Listen, but you know, my favorite part about it was when he goes, “I’m not going to be a part of any part of a party that \\[Hasan Piker\\] is a part of.” Well, didn’t you just say he’s a communist, so he’s not part of your party. So don’t worry about it. Or, “I’m not going to play a part in a party that \\[Hasan Piker\\] has a role in.” And you’re like, don’t worry, you won’t.

I don’t know if he understands how time works. Like, that’s — and not to be gross about it, but yeah, it’s okay. No, I think that’s fair. That young guy, that’s a fiery preacher for economic populism and other things. Nope. “I’m going to wait till he burns himself out and then I’m going to come back in in 2040.”


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** It’s the ’90s, baby. Let’s go.


**JON STEWART:** And reestablish — me and Mary Matalin are going to do a show.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Why do they keep putting him on TV? Because he’s available.


**JON STEWART:** Because he’ll say things that get aggregated. In the same reason, they clip things. He’s a guy that will say, and by the way, contradict himself every couple of months as soon as he’s been proven wrong. Which, by the way, when was the last time you won something? Yeah. F\\*o. He tries to still get — remember Clinton had, “It’s the economy, stupid.” Yeah. So now he’s playing on that still. It’s like, that was, I don’t know, 1992.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** It was.


**JON STEWART:** Yeah. And he was out there now like, “It’s the socialism, stupid.” And everybody’s just like, was that a play on — what is he talking about? He’s literally out there like, “Tippecanoe and communism too.” Like, 40% of the electorate did not vote in that election. “I don’t like Ike. I don’t like Piker.” You’re just like, what? Nobody understands even the reference — nobody understands my reference point. And I’m f\\*ing 20 years younger than that dude. All right. How do they keep in touch with us?


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Twitter, we are Weekly Show Pod. Instagram, Threads, TikTok, Blue Sky — we are Weekly Show Podcast, and you can like, subscribe, and comment on our YouTube channel, The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart.


**JON STEWART:** Oh, and I’m sure they will this week. Holy sh.


**SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:** Oh my God.


**JON STEWART:** As always, unbelievable job. Producer Brittany \\[Mamedovic\\], producer Jillian Spear, video editor and engineer Rob Vitolo, audio editor and engineer Nicole Boyce, and our executive producers Chris McShane and Katie Gray. We shall see you next week. The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart is a Comedy Central podcast. It’s produced by Paramount Audio and Busboy Productions.

###